NBC tape question

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'DoorNumberFour\' post=\'117082\' date=\'Apr 26 2006, 07:28 PM\']
As far as sitcoms go...

"Mr. Peepers" with Wally Cox is gone.
[/quote]
No, it's not.

[snowpeck]

[quote name='Ian Wallis' date='Apr 26 2006, 09:04 AM' post='117033']

I believe some All My Children episodes from early in its run exist only in black and white (all episodes were originally produced in color).

This is true.  The story I've heard (take it with a grain of salt now, as you should with any other story of this nature) is that sometime in the 1970s, a massive storage house fire (I assume an accidental one) mostly destroyed the first six years of the show (and who knows what other shows that were in ABC's possesion).  All that's left are the few episodes that survived the fire, kinescopes of the first few months, and a few Emmy tapes that some of the show's stars graciously donated back to ABC.


Greg

[RMF]

[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'117047\' date=\'Apr 26 2006, 11:39 AM\']

(I have a backup in that on one of the Steve Allen repackages that COM used to air, he mentioned that the only extant clips of the Allen "Tonight Show" are from an episode of his Sunday night variety show that did a clip show of "Tonight" and that the rest were destroyed in the NBC warehouse fire.)

And I have the feeling there are holes in "YBYL" before 1953, since the "Best of Groucho" package only covers September 1953 on (perhaps to avoid using Jerry Fielding's music cues--Jack Meakin took over as bandleader at that point).
[/quote]

Two separate corrections:

1) UCLA has a pile of material from Steve Allen-era Tonight Shows.

2) While there are some episodes of YBYL that either 1) Don't exist or 2) Only exist in the form used in the 1960's syndication package, the issue keeping early episodes out of circulation was a dispute with one of the show's writers.

[Blanquepage]

Just asking...what was the last "new" gameshow that was unearthed

Haggis Baggis with Dennis James and more It Takes Two episodes. There were also some pretty awesome discoveries ones right before those.
Furthermore, the title of "newest game show discovery" changes often...

--Jamie

[DoorNumberFour]

Really? I thought "Mr. Peepers" was live when it was broadcast, and therefore not recorded.

[TwoInchQuad]

Actually, Jamie, I think the most recent news would be about the 1958 episode of "Top Dollar" that was found, and in its original videotape format...!

For the record, the archivists and engineers that I've talked to (both active and retired) have stated that there was no "mass erasure" at any of the Big 3.  Whatever attrition there has been in programming is due to recycling of (then-expensive) tape stock, rather than wanton destruction.  In any case, where a show was owned or produced by an entity outside of the network, attempts were made to contact that entity before their tapes were re-used, or moved from storage.  The only single incident that I have had personally verified is the incident that Edie Adams related in her testimony before Congress.

The problem basically boils down to the fact that many daytime shows were network-produced, so they were often never truly archived in the first place.  Tapes would be cycled for re-use until they wore out, or failed to meet broadcast standards.

For me, the surprising exception to daytime destruction is "Concentration", which I'm told survives mostly intact, but locked securely in the vaults.

To elaborate on a few other points in the thread, there is indeed some amount of Allen-era "Tonight Show"s still around-- I just uncovered one myself, a few months ago.  And of course, NBC holds some.  Carson's shows are in the salt mine because he owned his era of "Tonight",  and that's where Carson Productions elects to store them.  And the single known preserved-on-videotape episode of the 60s "Match Game" has never been shown on GSN, but **is** avaialble for viewing at the Museum of Television & Radio.

-Kevin

[MrBuddwing]

[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'117102\' date=\'Apr 26 2006, 11:48 PM\']
Actually, Jamie, I think the most recent news would be about the 1958 episode of "Top Dollar" that was found, and in its original videotape format...!

For the record, the archivists and engineers that I've talked to (both active and retired) have stated that there was no "mass erasure" at any of the Big 3.  Whatever attrition there has been in programming is due to recycling of (then-expensive) tape stock, rather than wanton destruction.  In any case, where a show was owned or produced by an entity outside of the network, attempts were made to contact that entity before their tapes were re-used, or moved from storage.  The only single incident that I have had personally verified is the incident that Edie Adams related in her testimony before Congress.

The problem basically boils down to the fact that many daytime shows were network-produced, so they were often never truly archived in the first place.  Tapes would be cycled for re-use until they wore out, or failed to meet broadcast standards.

For me, the surprising exception to daytime destruction is "Concentration", which I'm told survives mostly intact, but locked securely in the vaults.

To elaborate on a few other points in the thread, there is indeed some amount of Allen-era "Tonight Show"s still around-- I just uncovered one myself, a few months ago.  And of course, NBC holds some.  Carson's shows are in the salt mine because he owned his era of "Tonight",  and that's where Carson Productions elects to store them.  And the single known preserved-on-videotape episode of the 60s "Match Game" has never been shown on GSN, but **is** avaialble for viewing at the Museum of Television & Radio.

-Kevin
[/quote]


Thank you for your informed as well as informative response.

When you say "Concentration," do you mean the very first version hosted by Hugh Downs? I'm acquainted with someone who appeared on that show, and it would be a fascination if his episode still existed - and totally frustrating not to be able to get at it.

Don't think it's been mentioned in this forum, but this month (April 14, to be exact) marked the 50th anniversary of the first public demonstration of the first Ampex videotape recorder, in Chicago. GSN has shown videotaped episodes of "Password" from 1962, and whenever I see one, I think: Wow. Only six years after Ampex came out with its VTR.

[Blanquepage]

Actually, Jamie, I think the most recent news would be about the 1958 episode of "Top Dollar" that was found, and in its original videotape format

Ah yes, but I thought the original poster was referring to the latest new NBC discovery. Top Dollar was CBS, right? Still, I forgot about that one too. Thanks for the reminder. :-D

--Jamie

[TwoInchQuad]

[quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' post=\'117103\' date=\'Apr 26 2006, 08:03 PM\']

Thank you for your informed as well as informative response.

When you say "Concentration," do you mean the very first version hosted by Hugh Downs? I'm acquainted with someone who appeared on that show, and it would be a fascination if his episode still existed - and totally frustrating not to be able to get at it.

[/quote]



Yup-- the first version.  And I know what you mean about frustration-- there's an episode I'd love to get for a friend, whose aunt appeared on the show.  Probably not gonna happen anytime soon, though...

-Kevin

[Jimmy Owen]

[quote name=\'TwoInchQuad\' post=\'117112\' date=\'Apr 27 2006, 01:33 AM\']
[quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' post=\'117103\' date=\'Apr 26 2006, 08:03 PM\']

Thank you for your informed as well as informative response.

When you say "Concentration," do you mean the very first version hosted by Hugh Downs? I'm acquainted with someone who appeared on that show, and it would be a fascination if his episode still existed - and totally frustrating not to be able to get at it.

[/quote]



Yup-- the first version.  And I know what you mean about frustration-- there's an episode I'd love to get for a friend, whose aunt appeared on the show.  Probably not gonna happen anytime soon, though...

-Kevin
[/quote]

Well, if they're in the Library of Congress....anybody here want to run for Congress???  Think of it--high pay, lots of time off and a whole library of "Concentration" eps.

[snowpeck]

[quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' post=\'117103\' date=\'Apr 26 2006, 08:03 PM\']

Well, if they're in the Library of Congress....anybody here want to run for Congress???  Think of it--high pay, lots of time off and a whole library of "Concentration" eps.
[/quote]


Actually you only have to be in the DC area to use the Library of Congress.  You have to make an appointment to view video materials though.



Greg

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'DoorNumberFour\' post=\'117097\' date=\'Apr 26 2006, 10:07 PM\']
Really? I thought "Mr. Peepers" was live when it was broadcast, and therefore not recorded.
[/quote]
Mr. Peepers was indeed broadcast live, but as was explained in the link I provided for you, films were made off the television monitors so that the show could be rebroadcast to other parts of the country.  These films, the kinescopes, are what still exist, and DVDs of the kinescopes are what Amazon is selling.

As I believe that this is the second time that you have missed the distinction between a videotape and a kinescope, you would do well to learn and understand the difference.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'snowpeck\' post=\'117127\' date=\'Apr 27 2006, 05:46 AM\']Actually you only have to be in the DC area to use the Library of Congress.  You have to make an appointment to view video materials though.[/quote]
However - again - the Concentration episodes are still on their original kinescopes, and nobody in the LoC is going to spend hundreds of dollars a whack to let you watch 45-year-old game show episodes.

Run for Congress, and then get them to pass the Hugh Downs Preservation Act, and then maybe you've got something.

[mmb5]

Strangely enough, last night on of all places BET-J there was a special about a recording of a concert that Thelonious Monk and John Coltrane did together.  A jazz historian knew it had to have been recorded, since it was later heard on VOA.  It took several years before they finally found it at the Library of Congress, since it was simply cataloged as "Carniege Hall Jazz".  They eventually remastered it and was released last year.

Getting back to the topic at hand, one of the Library of Congress people on the special said that they were in the process of digitizing all of their recordings.  I don't know if that was just audio or audio and video, but it is something they're doing, and would probably make the chances of seeing of this stuff maybe possible within 5 years.


--Mike

[kurtinrod62]

Sorry if I caused all the hubbub over the use of the word "holocaust'', may one of you give me a Moe Howard-like poke in the eyes [I'm a victim of circumstance].