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Author Topic: Greatest Hosts of All Time - Results Thread  (Read 111005 times)

TLEberle

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Greatest Hosts of All Time - Results Thread
« Reply #165 on: October 17, 2006, 02:00:53 AM »
[quote name=\'Eric Paddon\' post=\'134673\' date=\'Oct 16 2006, 01:54 PM\']The full transcript of that broadcast can be found in Kent Anderson's 1978 book on the scandal and indeed, Barry did not have that kind of dramatic reaction to Snodgrass answering "Emily Dickinson". That was just one of many frauds concocted by Robert Redford for the movie that ultimately was as guilty of the same thing that the original quiz rigging was guilty of, i.e. giving undeserved fame and credit to someone to elevate his stature (in this case, with Richard Goodwin, a man who was a trivial bit player in the original investigation getting credit for the work that was done by Joseph Stone and the New York D.A.'s office, and I suspect the reason for this had much to do with partisan politics since Goodwin has long had a reputation as an icon to 60s radicals).[/quote]I think that calling Quiz Show "guilty of perpetrating frauds" is completely over the line. If you were to draft a movie that stuck to the actual events by the letter, it would be boring as hell. Waiting two years to go from Stempel vs. Van Doren to when the dominoes started to fall would not make for a good dramatic presentation. It would make for a great documentary, but that's already been done once.

Redford took some creative liberties to make a drama based on actual events, but nowhere in the film does it say "this is exactly as things happened". And it does what it intends; to tell the story to a generation of people who wouldn't have heard or seen anything about it otherwise. I'll happily cut him some slack.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 02:08:22 AM by TLEberle »
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chris319

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« Reply #166 on: October 17, 2006, 03:20:17 AM »
Quote
Redford took some creative liberties to make a drama based on actual events, but nowhere in the film does it say "this is exactly as things happened". And it does what it intends; to tell the story to a generation of people who wouldn't have heard or seen anything about it otherwise. I'll happily cut him some slack.
Robert Redford was not the screenwriter of Quiz Show so those liberties were not his to take. Quiz Show was written in large part by Richard Goodwin, who had a clear interest in revising history. The producer of Quiz Show was one Julian Krainin, who was also a producer of the PBS documentary. Quiz Show takes real people and real events and distorts the roles of various individuals, namely Goodwin and Stone. At best Quiz Show is a self-serving piece of historical revisionism concocted by Richard Goodwin.

Redford did a deplorable job of casting. The only two characters I found even remotely convincing were Paul Scofield as Mark Van Doren and David Paymer, whom I found really convincing as Dan Enright. Ralph Fiennes as Charles Van Doren and Christopher McDonald as Jack Barry were downright laughable.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 03:32:38 AM by chris319 »

Ian Wallis

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« Reply #167 on: October 17, 2006, 08:59:01 AM »
Quote
Redford took some creative liberties to make a drama based on actual events, but nowhere in the film does it say "this is exactly as things happened".

Especially since the questions they asked on the real Twenty-One were usually multi-part questions, and they weren't depicted that way in the film.  Also, while Stempel did miss the "Marty" question, it was early in the game in which he lost, and not the deciding question.

While I really enjoyed Quiz Show, and I think it was a fairly accurate recreation of events of that time, the specific details have to be taken with a grain of salt.
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clemon79

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« Reply #168 on: October 17, 2006, 09:31:43 AM »
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'134705\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 05:59 AM\']
Especially since the questions they asked on the real Twenty-One were usually multi-part questions, and they weren't depicted that way in the film.
[/quote]
At key moments, no, but I could swear in the montage where Van Doren rack up win after win, there are quite a few "I'll answer the seventh part third, Jack" moments in there.
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Neumms

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« Reply #169 on: October 17, 2006, 12:53:19 PM »
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'134698\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 02:20 AM\']
Redford did a deplorable job of casting. The only two characters I found even remotely convincing were Paul Scofield as Mark Van Doren and David Paymer, whom I found really convincing as Dan Enright. Ralph Fiennes as Charles Van Doren and Christopher McDonald as Jack Barry were downright laughable.
[/quote]

Granted you might know Barry if not Van Doren, but, as far as the movie goes, I found them terrific. McDonald played Barry better than Barry himself. Now the guy from "Northern Exposure" as Goodwin, on the other hand, I'll give you.

And as the guy who brought up the Snodgrass episode as an example of lousy hosting, my apologies. I saw the movie more recently than I've read the book.

cweaver

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« Reply #170 on: October 17, 2006, 01:00:03 PM »
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'134705\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 07:59 AM\']
I think it was a fairly accurate recreation of events of that time, the specific details have to be taken with a grain of salt.
[/quote]

I would agree, and one should likely never, ever point to a docudrama of any kind as an authoritative reference like they would a dictionary or almanac.

Neumms

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« Reply #171 on: October 17, 2006, 01:02:10 PM »
I had Convy on my list in the low teens. He definitely had his own unique style, which is much of what I graded on. Maybe the first self-depricating host.

Now, he was the wrong guy for "Password," especially as it's so established with a totally different kind of host, yet he still made it work for a pretty long run. It could have gone as badly as Davidson on the Pyramid (or Fleming on "Beat the Clock"), but didn't.

Jimmy Owen

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« Reply #172 on: October 17, 2006, 01:39:03 PM »
Only CBS "Password" lasted longer than Bert's version, that's gotta count for something.
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chris319

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« Reply #173 on: October 17, 2006, 03:03:31 PM »
Quote
McDonald played Barry better than Barry himself.
Christopher McDonald is Irish. Jack Barry was Jewish. That's too much of a disconnect for me, especially given that the public knew Barry through thousands of TV appearances. It would be like having Dick Van Dyke play the late Allen Funt.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 03:04:10 PM by chris319 »

Game Show Man

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« Reply #174 on: October 17, 2006, 03:24:15 PM »
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'134724\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 12:03 PM\']
Quote
McDonald played Barry better than Barry himself.
Christopher McDonald is Irish. Jack Barry was Jewish. That's too much of a disconnect for me, especially given that the public knew Barry through thousands of TV appearances. It would be like having Dick Van Dyke play the late Allen Funt.
[/quote]
And yet, when one watches Quiz Show and listens to McDonald deliver his lines as Barry, he sounds eerily like Barry, almost as if he were channeling the man.  Grouse all you like, I thought McDonald had Barry spot on.
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Matt Ottinger

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« Reply #175 on: October 17, 2006, 04:32:24 PM »
[color=\"#6600CC\"]20 Jack Narz[/color]
Now You See It, Beat the Clock, Dotto
(231 27/68)
Fewer votes, but higher ranks from the people who remembered.

[color=\"#6600CC\"]19 John Daly[/color]
What's My Line?, It's News To Me
(279 29/68)
Highest ranked of the three in the top forty who were game show hosts and newspeople concurrently (Viera, Downs).

[color=\"#6600CC\"]18 Garry Moore[/color]
I've Got A Secret, To Tell The Truth
(295 30/68)
For whatever reason, tied with Jim Peck for the most total votes at #20 (5 of them).

[color=\"#6600CC\"]17 Richard Dawson[/color]
Family Feud, Masquerade Party
(314 36/68)
First one to appear on at least half the ballots.  I'm sure Masquerade Party helped.

[color=\"#6600CC\"]16 Pat Sajak[/color]
Wheel of Fortune
(324 33/68)
Is Wheel the easiest gig in game shows, or does Sajak just make it look that way?
« Last Edit: October 17, 2006, 04:33:38 PM by Matt Ottinger »
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chad1m

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« Reply #176 on: October 17, 2006, 04:38:34 PM »
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'134747\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 04:32 PM\']
Is Wheel the easiest gig in game shows, or does Sajak just make it look that way?
[/quote]

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Eric Paddon

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« Reply #177 on: October 17, 2006, 05:03:34 PM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'134697\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 02:00 AM\']
I think that calling Quiz Show "guilty of perpetrating frauds" is completely over the line. If you were to draft a movie that stuck to the actual events by the letter, it would be boring as hell. Waiting two years to go from Stempel vs. Van Doren to when the dominoes started to fall would not make for a good dramatic presentation. It would make for a great documentary, but that's already been done once.

Redford took some creative liberties to make a drama based on actual events, but nowhere in the film does it say "this is exactly as things happened". And it does what it intends; to tell the story to a generation of people who wouldn't have heard or seen anything about it otherwise. I'll happily cut him some slack.
[/quote]


I have no problem with compressing things, but the fraud part is in making Richard Goodwin this odor-free paragon of virtue finding out all about this by himself.      Goodwin was being given credit for another man's work, in this case Joseph Stone.      If the film compressed things exactly as they did and properly gave credit to Stone and had him as the protagonist, I would have had no problem with that.     But in the end, just as Van Doren was made a hero by the nation for something he didn't deserve credit for, the movie made a hero of Goodwin for something he didn't deserve credit for.    No difference in my book.

Eric Paddon

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« Reply #178 on: October 17, 2006, 05:04:57 PM »
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'134724\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 03:03 PM\']
Quote
McDonald played Barry better than Barry himself.
Christopher McDonald is Irish. Jack Barry was Jewish. That's too much of a disconnect for me, especially given that the public knew Barry through thousands of TV appearances. It would be like having Dick Van Dyke play the late Allen Funt.
[/quote]


And yet McDonald also played another Jewish broadcaster, Mel Allen in the Billy Crystal cable movie *61 and was just as convincing there IMO as he was when he played Jack Barry.

chris319

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« Reply #179 on: October 17, 2006, 05:59:42 PM »
[quote name=\'Eric Paddon\' post=\'134753\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 02:04 PM\']
[quote name=\'chris319\' post=\'134724\' date=\'Oct 17 2006, 03:03 PM\']
Quote
McDonald played Barry better than Barry himself.
Christopher McDonald is Irish. Jack Barry was Jewish. That's too much of a disconnect for me, especially given that the public knew Barry through thousands of TV appearances. It would be like having Dick Van Dyke play the late Allen Funt.
[/quote]


And yet McDonald also played another Jewish broadcaster, Mel Allen in the Billy Crystal cable movie *61 and was just as convincing there IMO as he was when he played Jack Barry.
[/quote]
Grand. I'll call Bruce Willis and tell him he's got the role of Paul Lynde if they ever do a biopic.