Extraneous rules...

[TLEberle]

[quote name=\'pyrfan\' post=\'138850\' date=\'Nov 26 2006, 07:06 PM\']According to my Funk & Wagnalls (quick hat tip to Dick Martin), the definition of "extraneous" is "not intrinsic or essential to matter under consideration." By that definition, the entire 7-11 itself is extraneous, as the bonus money is not essential in determining who comes back the next day, just like the Ca$hword has nothing to do with who wins the game and goes to the bonus round in "Super Password." Explain to me (and I'm not being a smart aleck about this -- I really want to know what you think) why a very rarely chosen option in the 7-11 doesn't also fall under the heading of "extraneous."[/quote] Because it was offered to the players as part of the game. A bonus part of the game, certainly, but still part of the game.

If "Famous Russians" comes up as the 7-11 category, that $300 in bonus money starts to look good. Just because it was almost never taken up doesn't mean it falls under your given definition. It was designed to be part of the bonus, which means that someone thought that a contestant down the road would want to have the option of $50/word. As it happens, only a handful of people ever went that way. That producer guessed wrong, is all. I seriously doubt the intent was to create a convoluted bonus that no one would go for, because if that was the case, it could have been much, much worse. ("You can either go for $1,100 with seven right, or we'll award you $10 times the number of seconds remaining for each odd answer, and we'll take the natural log of your score and multiply it by $13.95 for the even answers." I would concede that my version of the 7-11 would be extraneous.)

The items laid out are all choices, and as it happens, they fall in a 99/100 and 1/100 division. Looking back at the "$1,000 or bust" paradigm for Tic Tac Dough and Joker's Wild, offering the player a bail out option manages to make the bonus game something more than a simple coin flip. Otherwise, it's (do action, check result, do action, repeat until BadGuyFound or TargetAcquired). Is anyone going to quit with $350? Probably not, especially if they won three times that in the front game. But the option is there.

[Steve McClellan]

[quote name=\'SamJ93\' post=\'138853\' date=\'Nov 26 2006, 10:10 PM\']if a gameplay option is rarely used, isn't it usually a sign that it's not worth keeping it?  "Millionaire" is an exception, I'll admit.[/quote]
Technically, Millionaire isn't even an exception. Their rule is that at any time, you may quit with the money you've accumulated, or answer the question in front of you. It applies just as equally whether you're looking at the $200 question or the $1,000,000. It's not a rarely-used option; it's a commonly-used option that is rarely used at that particular point of the game. It's like calling "longshot!" with 50 seconds left, buying a solo Instant Bargain before giving Jim a chance to cut the price or add cash, or using the Wild Card while you're sitting on a $300 space.

Some good rules create theoretically-possible situations that will never happen, and eliminating the possibility would add another two sentences to the rules. Why complicate things?

[narzo]

[quote name=\'SamJ93\' post=\'138791\' date=\'Nov 25 2006, 03:46 PM\']
-"On Account" in the shopping days of Wheel

[/quote]

I remember it being used quite often on the daytime WOF in the 70's.  I'll never forget one guy who started shopping with over 4k (quite a load back then) but it was nothing but kitchen appliances.  he bought one thing and then, looking disgusted and frustrated, put over 3 grand on account.  Chuck actually was saying "now you're sure about this?", but the guy hated the prizes and tried his luck.  He lost.

[Ian Wallis]

The items laid out are all choices, and as it happens, they fall in a 99/100 and 1/100 division. Looking back at the "$1,000 or bust" paradigm for Tic Tac Dough and Joker's Wild, offering the player a bail out option manages to make the bonus game something more than a simple coin flip. Otherwise, it's (do action, check result, do action, repeat until BadGuyFound or TargetAcquired). Is anyone going to quit with $350? Probably not, especially if they won three times that in the front game. But the option is there.

Using that example, I remember a much greater number of players stopping before reaching $1000 on Joker's Wild than on Tic Tac Dough.  I remember Jack saying "...let's see what would have happened" a lot.  I wonder if players thought that the unpredictability of a slot machine was more risky than picking a number they see right before them(?)

[TimK2003]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'138882\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 10:39 AM\']
Using that example, I remember a much greater number of players stopping before reaching $1000 on Joker's Wild than on Tic Tac Dough.  I remember Jack saying "...let's see what would have happened" a lot.  I wonder if players thought that the unpredictability of a slot machine was more risky than picking a number they see right before them(?)
[/quote]

But I don't seem to recall Wink holding a big wad of cash in front of the contestant throughout the bonus game either.

[Jimmy Owen]

I wonder how many game shows had rules that were extraneous that we don't know about because those rules were never utilized on the air?

[Neumms]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'138882\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 09:39 AM\']
Using that example, I remember a much greater number of players stopping before reaching $1000 on Joker's Wild than on Tic Tac Dough.  I remember Jack saying "...let's see what would have happened" a lot.  I wonder if players thought that the unpredictability of a slot machine was more risky than picking a number they see right before them(?)
[/quote]

I recall that, too. I wouldn't have thought they offered the option of quitting on TTD if I hadn't seen it here. Since the player had to pick the numbers, apparently that gave them enough to do.

One rule that wasn't used very often was for the player to pick giving or receiving on Dick Clark's Pyramid. That was terrific--the player only gave once in a great while, but they didn't bother explaining it every time. When Donny brought back the option, they belabored it, wasting time they could have used elsewhere.

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'138900\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 11:52 AM\']
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'138882\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 09:39 AM\']
Using that example, I remember a much greater number of players stopping before reaching $1000 on Joker's Wild than on Tic Tac Dough.  I remember Jack saying "...let's see what would have happened" a lot.  I wonder if players thought that the unpredictability of a slot machine was more risky than picking a number they see right before them(?)
[/quote]

I recall that, too. I wouldn't have thought they offered the option of quitting on TTD if I hadn't seen it here. Since the player had to pick the numbers, apparently that gave them enough to do.

One rule that wasn't used very often was for the player to pick giving or receiving on Dick Clark's Pyramid. That was terrific--the player only gave once in a great while, but they didn't bother explaining it every time. When Donny brought back the option, they belabored it, wasting time they could have used elsewhere.
[/quote]

But the rule was first brought on, Clark would say right before sending the players to the Winner's Circle, "This is a $10,000 decision--do you want to give the clues or have Nipsey give the clues?"  As time went on, he dropped asking that question and let the contestant decide during the commercial.

[Casey]

[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'138883\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 09:06 AM\']
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'138882\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 10:39 AM\']
Using that example, I remember a much greater number of players stopping before reaching $1000 on Joker's Wild than on Tic Tac Dough.  I remember Jack saying "...let's see what would have happened" a lot.  I wonder if players thought that the unpredictability of a slot machine was more risky than picking a number they see right before them(?)
[/quote]

But I don't seem to recall Wink holding a big wad of cash in front of the contestant throughout the bonus game either.
[/quote]
I don't recall Wink even telling contestants they could stop at any time.  Jack would tell contestants that every time they were up playing the bonus round, but I don't remember Wink doing it.  (Doesn't mean it didn't happen)

[beatlefreak84]

I don't recall Wink even telling contestants they could stop at any time. Jack would tell contestants that every time they were up playing the bonus round, but I don't remember Wink doing it. (Doesn't mean it didn't happen)

Wink did during the first season, but, IIRC, he pretty much didn't after that.

Incidentally, can anybody shed some light as to why this was the case on TTD?  To me, it seems odd that Barry would go through the motions on one show and not have it done on another.

Anthony

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'138900\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 12:52 PM\']
When Donny brought back the option, they belabored it, wasting time they could have used elsewhere.
[/quote]
Heh...even more time to pimp the celebrities' projects. :-P

[TimK2003]

Anybody know what the ratio of "cop-outs" to "all or nothings" was in some of the other B&E bonus games:

Barry's "Break The Bank" -- I don't recall anyone stopping in the $2000 or Bust game.
"Bullseye" -- probably the most complex bonus game of them all...
"Hot Potato" -- With the free pass, the number of possible cop-outs would be reduced, no?

[ChuckNet]

[quote name=\'beatlefreak84\' post=\'138799\' date=\'Nov 25 2006, 07:26 PM\']
One I thought of:  I can't ever remember seeing someone take the $1,000 instead of going for the $10,000 on "Grand Game."  From the recent shows I've seen, it doesn't even look like the contestants consider the option (as Bob is explaining, they're already pointing to the three remaining products for audience reaction!).
[/quote]

It happened at least twice in the mid-80s, once on Kennedy's version, as I recall...but yeah, I also can't recall anyone quitting w/$1K in recent years, either.

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")

[ChuckNet]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I have most of the episodes from 1984 on tape, and a contestant took the $50 route exactly once that whole year.

And IIRC, had she gone the "normal" route, she would've won the $1100.

Chcuk Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")

[pyrfan]

[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' post=\'138938\' date=\'Nov 27 2006, 10:08 PM\']

I agree with this wholeheartedly. I have most of the episodes from 1984 on tape, and a contestant took the $50 route exactly once that whole year.

And IIRC, had she gone the "normal" route, she would've won the $1100.

Chcuk Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")
[/quote]
Hmm...maybe you have a different episode than I do (or maybe it happened twice that year). In the one I have, the contestant wins $300, getting 6 out of 7. This is also the first episode in which a car is given away for breaking a 21-21 tie.


Brendan