GSN Scheduling: Pros and Cons

[Dbacksfan12]

And there hasn't been any new eps of WLoD on since '89, but GSN will still make room for it on the schedule.  Well, unless you count Pictionary.

Why do you bring up Pictionary?  They were two completely different franchises...you might as well say Wendy's and Carl's Jr. are the same.

Again, I point to the FoF, But Ottinger, Lemon, dzinkin will say that's it's absolutely garbage, and it doesn't count for anything.

I also say it was garbage.  The only reason those two shows made it is that moronic GSN board posters clicked these shows EVERY day.  If it was done by phone, and each phone number was allowed 1 vote, your point may have some validity.  

And didn't GSN take a risk when they put Blockbusters or Trivia Trap back on the schedule in January? I'm pretty sure that beyond '94, they were probably not mainstays on the schedule.

 Although I don't know about Trivia trap, Blockbusters aired,AFAIK, all the way until October 1997 (including Rafferty's version).

just asking for one measly shot on the schedule.

Tell me again why GSN should grant your request?  One, good reason.

[dzinkin]

And why are you guys so sure that I'm the only one???

Show me where any of us said you were the only one.  We're saying that there aren't enough diehard TJW and TTD fans to merit placing them on the schedule regularly.

And again, I point to the FoF poll,

And again, a poll where the primary respondents are people likely to vote a certain way is not scientific evidence.  Bringing the FoF poll up ad nauseam doesn't change that fact.  The poll was a marketing gimmick, and nothing more.

and that both shows actually had a following.

And again, not enough of a following to merit putting TJW and TTD on the schedule regularly.

And didn't GSN take a risk when they put Blockbusters or Trivia Trap back on the schedule in January? I'm pretty sure that beyond '94, they were probably not mainstays on the schedule.

Every schedule change is a risk.  But unless you're an idiot, you don't take a risk that's already been demonstrated to show significantly less than a sufficient reward.

I'm just asking for one measly shot on the schedule.

You're asking GSN to do something that has been proven not to work.

If it fails and kicks up the negative $'s for GSN, then I'll GLADLY admit that I'm wrong.

And then a few years will pass, and people will repeat as you did, \"things have changed.\"  That notwithstanding, GSN is not going to risk $$$ to see if you're wrong.

And it was probably due to that same market research that ratings dropped 40%.

And yet the ratings are still better than when GSN was programming TJW and TTD regularly.

I repeat... you have yet to explain what has changed since GSN regularly aired TJW and TTD to merit another try.  Hint: \"Let's see what happens\" is not an answer to that question.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'whampyl03\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 08:56 PM\'] Well, again, I point to the FoF poll, Ottinger will say it's un-scientific and then it's a debate that is going around in circles...
 [/quote]
 Keep pointing. There IS no debate, because nothing about that poll proves that the sample they gathered accurately represents the actual demographics of EITHER GSN's current OR future audience.

Look at Blockbusters for example, Somebody must be watching it if it lasted for over 9 months on the schedule so far.

And my guess is they have market research and Nielsen numbers a damn sight more reliable than a Web poll to back up that programming decision.

[whampyl03]

I'll fold for now, mainly because I hate repeating myself (and I'm sure you guys hate repeating youselves as well)... but I still don't agree with you guys one bit on this subject.  Call me the loser of the arguement, I guess.

EDIT: Now where the heck are my parting gifts?

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'whampyl03\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 10:38 PM\'] I'll fold for now [/quote]
The validity of the FoF poll isn't going to increase over time.

but I still don't agree with you guys one bit on this subject.

You don't have to, so long as you understand that it's because you're not willing to accept as fact a few very basic proven concepts. That's certainly unfortunate, but I don't plan to lose any sleep over it either.

[Ian Wallis]

GSN has reams of data telling them exactly who and how many are watching their shows. If that data told them more people were watching The Joker's Wild or Peter Marshall's Squares when they were on the FIRST time -- or at least ENOUGH people were watching to make it worth their economic while -- they'd still be on NOW! That's how it works!

I've always wondered about shows they've hardly given a shot - especially ones that aired during what some people refer to as \"The Dark Period\".  

There were some neat shows on that schedule - a few of which were highly respected when they were on, even if they didn't have long runs.  Since many of them haven't been aired regularly since then, how can they go buy the reams of data from so many years ago?  In other words, since a lot of things have changed since 1997 maybe some of those shows that they hardly gave a shot might actually get decent numbers now.  I'm thinking of shows such as \"Break the Bank\", which was only on once a week at that time.  Or, if \"Pyramid\" still gets enough viewers to warrant two-a-day airings, why not run the \"$20,000\" version just for something fresh?

When you look at obscure shows which became hits for GSN, \"Three's a Crowd\" comes to mind.  Reportedly, that was the highest-rated show on GSN for a while and led to a new version.  Maybe there's another rare show there which would get good ratings - but they shouldn't be relying on six year old data when so much is different now.

[Ian Wallis]

Every schedule change is a risk. But unless you're an idiot, you don't take a risk that's already been demonstrated to show significantly less than a sufficient reward.

Point taken.  However, I think every schedule change should \"freshen\" things up a bit.  Other than \"Millionaire\" joining the schedule, there's nothing at all new about this one - except for several shows changing time slots.  GSN just keeps running the same *series* over and over again.  It wouldn't hurt to add even one show at each schedule change.  I'm not even necessarily talking about some rare, just an addition to freshen things up a bit.

Personally, I find things too much the same with GSN most of the time.  Maybe that's one of the reasons ratings have dropped.

[Jay Temple]

Let me sum up some basic points and add one.

It is self-evident that a cable channel is a business.  (At least, it should be.)

They make money either by selling an entire time block for an infomercial or by selling shorter blocks within an actual program.

The revenue they generate for either one depends on how many viewers the advertisers think it will attract, which more or less is what the ratings tell them.

The profit for a given time spot is the revenue minus the cost of airing the program.

So, the real question for the folks at GSN is, for which programs is that differential most favorable?

If you wanted to persuade them to add some classic show not already on the schedule, you would have to convince them that the show would bring in enough viewers to justify the additional cost.

Mathematically, you would have to show:  (Revenue resulting from your show's ratings) - (Cost of your show) > (Revenue generated from what's currently airing) - (Cost of that show).  (In the case of an infomercial, that second difference is simply the amount they're paid for running it.)

Here's the rub:  Never mind that you can't really prove what the ratings would be for your show.  Most of the visitors to this website, myself included, have no way of knowing the costs in that statement.

I did not address the following side issue:  Advertisers really want viewers who will not only see their ads but make a change in behavior based on it.  That's why you won't see ads for Summer's Eve on The Man Show.  This may or may not be significant enough to be relevant to our discussion.

[SplitSecond]

Scarcity creates value.  The show you most want to watch will invariably be one not on the air.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 11:21 AM\'] Here's the rub:  Never mind that you can't really prove what the ratings would be for your show.  Most of the visitors to this website, myself included, have no way of knowing the costs in that statement.
 [/quote]
 And this, I think, is the crux of Wham's argument. Since we don't know any better than he does if something will stick if thrown at the wall, then we're not in a position to suggest that it shouldn't be tried. Which in and of itself, it true.

What's being missed (and I'm not suggesting you're missing it, Jay) is that, in their positions at GSN, Cronin and Boden have access to good solid scientific and economic information that none of us do. And I am forced to assume, since both men have enjoyed long careers in the television business, that they do not ignore this privledged information.

Therefore, there's a reason TJW and TTD are not on the schedule. I don't know what it is. But they do, and I am forced to assume, until I am shown differently, that it is a good one.

[Jimmy Owen]

It's interesting to still see ads directed to the elderly on the \"edgy\" GSN shows.  Are those just per-inquiry ads that can be locally preempted?  My cable system doesn't offer local avails for GSN, so I'm not sure if the ads for scooters, health insurance and the like are merely filler.

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 03:09 PM\']It's interesting to still see ads directed to the elderly on the \"edgy\" GSN shows.  Are those just per-inquiry ads that can be locally preempted?  My cable system doesn't offer local avails for GSN, so I'm not sure if the ads for scooters, health insurance and the like are merely filler.[/quote]
For the most part, the direct-response ads only run in prime time and late-night in the local cutaway slots--which is the first minute of the second break in every half-hour.  During the day, they pop up a little more.  GSN could run promos or PSAs in those cutaway slots, but they choose to try to get a little more revenue in those times (noteworthy, considering that they may still be working off of some late 90s contracts where some systems were getting the channel without having to pay a subscriber fee--that's so-much per subscriber to the cable system--the other main revenue stream that has made cable networks more profitable sooner than if they went strictly on advertising alone).  Considering that almost every system now runs local spots in the cutaways on every basic ad-supported channel--even if it's promos for other channels or attempts to get you to upgrade to digital and not get a dish--and that the two big satellite services run in-house promos in their cutaways--there may be a few systems out there that don't cut in so that GSN can potentially make some money--*if* someone calls that 800-number.

And as I've pointed out before, HITS, the digital provider to Comcast systems that were AT&T and other systems, does run their own direct-response spots in GSN's cutaways (and other channels' cutaways).

[Fedya]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 03:09 PM\'] It's interesting to still see ads directed to the elderly on the "edgy" GSN shows.  Are those just per-inquiry ads that can be locally preempted?  My cable system doesn't offer local avails for GSN, so I'm not sure if the ads for scooters, health insurance and the like are merely filler. [/quote]
 I have DirecTV and see the same ads.  I always thought that was the same stuff that DirecTV sold as its equivalent of local avails -- I know I see some of the same stuff, along with Dell ads, during the local avail break on ESPNews.

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 11:53 PM\']
Why do you bring up Pictionary?  They were two completely different franchises...you might as well say Wendy's and Carl's Jr. are the same.
 [/quote]
 I\"ll sort-of defend Pictionary and WLoD being the same franchise, particularly if referring to the 1997-98 version and not the 1989 kids show Pictionary(Barry and Enright produced it with Quantum Media/MCA, GSN doesn't have the rights to air it). The 1997-98 show was also a KLine and Friends production and played a bit like WLoD in a lot of respects.

[Jay Temple]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 02:44 PM\'] [quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 11:21 AM\']Most of the visitors to this website, myself included, have no way of knowing the costs in that statement.
 [/quote]
And this, I think, is the crux of Wham's argument. Since we don't know any better than he does if something will stick if thrown at the wall, then we're not in a position to suggest that it shouldn't be tried. Which in and of itself, it true.

What's being missed (and I'm not suggesting you're missing it, Jay) is that, in their positions at GSN, Cronin and Boden have access to good solid scientific and economic information that none of us do.

Therefore, there's a reason TJW and TTD are not on the schedule. I don't know what it is. But they do, and I am forced to assume, until I am shown differently, that it is a good one. [/quote]
 I was going to say something to that effect, but I thought my post was running a little long.