Is tape trading dead?

[DoorNumberFour]

With all the shows that are being put on YouTube and other sites, and with the generosity Jamie Locklin shows on his site regarding rare shows and clips, is tape trading dead?

I, for one, think it's on its way out.

Our genre has become so much more accessible.

It's become so much easier to see a classic non-GSN game show without the money, time, or drama associated with tape trading.

[jmangin]

With regard to VHS tapes specifically, I think that is almost extinct.

Using DVDs is so much easier.  You can pull specific titles from DVDs and copy them to another DVD in minutes without having to fast forward, actually pay attention and watch the shows to make sure you hit Record/Stop at the appropriate times.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'DoorNumberFour\' post=\'158809\' date=\'Jul 27 2007, 05:41 AM\']
money, time, or drama associated with tape trading.
[/quote]
Money and time have been solved with the move to DVD. "Dubbing" is now effectively a copy-paste operation to a 25-cent DVD that costs less than a buck to ship.

Drama was ALWAYS fixable: DON'T TRADE WITH THOSE PEOPLE. Unfortunately, watching on the periphery, I noticed that people would either a) not do their homework, and therefore know who not to do business with, b) be so desperate for something that they would make a shady deal anyhow, or c) be really stupid themselves.

It's like Walmart, man. You want Walmart to change their ways? DON'T SHOP AT WALMART.

And if you do, don't be surprised when the patio furniture you paid $19.88 for breaks.

[tvmitch]

I know that with the accessibility to torrents and other downloadable game shows, my urge to tape trade for foreign shows, at least, is not nearly as much as it once was. If I really want to see an English-speaking international game show that is currently airing, there is almost always some way to get it via broadband.

[Ian Wallis]

While torrents and downloads may eventually take over, I don't think tape trading's quite dead yet.  There's still quite a number of desirable shows that aren't on the 'net (yet), so it will probably be around a while longer.

Many of my trades these days are via disc, but I'm still getting tape requests too from people who aren't set up on disc yet.  Either's OK by me

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'158848\' date=\'Jul 27 2007, 02:52 PM\']
While torrents and downloads may eventually take over, I don't think tape trading's quite dead yet.  There's still quite a number of desirable shows that aren't on the 'net (yet), so it will probably be around a while longer.[/quote]
Exactly.  It's a little like what Ebay has done to the collectible market in general.  At first, back when the internet was new, GSN didn't exist and fans of shows were just starting to find one another, trading tapes was a thrilling way to rediscover the old shows.  Nowadays, the novelty has worn off and the serious collectors -- at least those of you who post your massive collections on the internet -- all pretty much have whatever the other guy has, or at least as much of the other guy's collection as you want.

There's still stuff out there (the UCLA archive is proof of that) and eventually more and more of it will trickle out, but the days of people swapping dozens of shows at a time are probably over.  Ironic, since the advent of recordable DVDs has made that very process so much faster and easier.

[mcsittel]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'158857\' date=\'Jul 27 2007, 02:55 PM\']
There's still stuff out there (the UCLA archive is proof of that) and eventually more and more of it will trickle out, but the days of people swapping dozens of shows at a time are probably over.  Ironic, since the advent of recordable DVDs has made that very process so much faster and easier.
[/quote]

I'd like to think with the advent of the Internet, GS fans from abroad will surface and/or be located more easily, and we'll unearth a treasure trove of "Icelandic Talk About" or "Lithuanian Weakest Link".  For those of us who enjoy the foreign stuff, our collections will hopefully expand.

I don't see YouTube being the end of trading.  It's great for exposure to see shows, yes, but there's no guarantee of permanency, much less availability, to the online material.  But thanks to YouTube, Now that I've *seen* Sudo-Q and "Golden Balls", I hope to find someone across the pond to trade with!  

[kav]

I hope not.  I got into trading relatively later (2004) compared to most people here.  There's still a good number of shows I'm trying to find that aren't on YouTube or on torrents.

[mrcity]

Tape trading is not dead at all!  Since probably the end of May, I have negotiated almost 120 hours of trades with 5 people, and have actually received about 60 of those hours thus far (as my trading partners and I have just barely started on the newer deals). At the beginning of July, I traded with a guy who had traded with 11 people I've never heard of before, and only 2 that I have!

As what many people say about records versus CDs, I believe there is a similar difference between VHS tapes versus DVDs.  I'm not really a fan of DVD dubs unless the quality of the show is absolutely perfect and recorded in 2-hour or even 1-hour mode.  And, while it is a priority for us all to phase out VHS, I still have a $350 VCR capable of repairing video signals, and you just can't do that very easily to something copied on a DVD.  Thus, sometimes I insist people send me VHS dubs of things just so I can sit around & try to fix it.  On the flip side, 2/3 of the 120 hours I'm sending out will be on DVDs.

Also, as I burn the DVDs, I rip them on my computer before I send them (2TB of space helps my cause a lot!) and that allows me to burn these episodes back to DVD from the computer instantly whenever someone else wants them, instead of having to do a real-time transfer from the player to the recorder.  Someday, the future of "tape trading" might not involve anything physical at all; instead, traders might send these rips over a file transfer service such as AIM, and the recipient can burn it for themselves if they so desire.

About the drama too, I have seen many old tape trading pages dating back way before I started in January 2005, and it looks like the veterans really went through a lot of crap back then.  Trade ratios on rare shows?  Those are days long gone-by.  Unscrupulous traders?  I have yet to encounter a bad trader personally.  Maybe some really slow ones, sure, but ultimately everyone has paid their end of the deal to me.

Finally, there are new game show fans born every day.  Those of you who reached the 10,000-episode mark years ago may have lost enthusiasm, as it seems like it's very hard to come across anything else real interesting, but there are new traders (even myself, with just over 1,000 episodes) who desire to attain a collection similar in stature, and who don't yet have everything the big cats have but still really want it, and actively trade to try and get there.  Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think most of the people I have traded with are probably 17-25 years old, just as I am, and love to pursue the classics.  There are at least a few kids younger than that who are doing as I did, taping stuff on GSN relentlessly, hoping the day will come soon that they can make a trade!

- Stephen "Chained to the VCR... or now, I guess, DVD recorder" Wylie
My Game Show (and trading) Page!

[gameboy2000]

I started trading in 2004 and in three years, I have gotten close to 2,000 shows.

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'mrcity\' post=\'159030\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 12:54 AM\']
Unscrupulous traders?  I have yet to encounter a bad trader personally.  Maybe some really slow ones, sure, but ultimately everyone has paid their end of the deal to me.
[/quote]
Many of the bad traders didn't set out to cheat people; they just wanted to add to their collections and, when faced with the fact that they actually had to do something in return, didn't feel like putting in the effort.  (Granted, you can argue the issue of intent -- especially when it happens, say, ten times -- but I would argue in return that some of them are so, er, intellectually challenged that they don't think they're doing anything wrong and don't see a pattern.)  They now can get their fix by downloading.  

The ones whose intent from the start is to cheat are another matter.  When a Danny Voisine or Mark Raby makes a list of shows that he knows he doesn't have and never will have (as Danny and Mark both did), then creates other personalities to vouch for him (Danny) or fakes his own death to avoid sending anything out (Mark), he needs someone else to be involved, and scammed, in order to get his enjoyment.  He knows that what he's doing is wrong and doesn't care, and he won't be satisfied with a download because no one's on the other end to get hurt.

I've been out of trading circles for some time and, given what's happened to trading in the interim, I'm not sure I'd be all that eager to get back in even if I had the time.  These days I get my trading-related enjoyment from the abject morons who email me asking for a trade -- despite the fact that my page clearly says, and has said for some time, that I'm not trading at the moment -- and then, when I point that out, demand that I put them on my "waiting list" in case I ever get back to trading.

[pownster]

I've been on the trading circuit since 2003 - and I have not only accumulated a nice collection of game shows from throughout the world - but also many, many friends - some of which I have actually met in person during my travels around the world. I have found it a very rewarding hobby, and as one of the very few traders from Down Under, have gained some memorable experiences from it - including visiting Hollywood to help out in the compilation of foreign material for a game show blooper special, meeting some fine quiz show champions, and even finding myself being thrust on the small screen to showcase my collection. I've never had any issues with bad traders - although I must admit I nearly found myself falling into that category with a trader because I inadvertedly lost the discs (at home) I was meant to send, and then forgot about it. I think all has been forgiven on that side of things.

I don't think tape trading will die, even with the age of high-speed internet and vodcasting. I will certainly keep on, until the interest wanes (if it ever does!)

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159041\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 06:32 AM\']
and he won't be satisfied with a download because no one's on the other end to get hurt.
[/quote]
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I think this is going a little far. I honestly can't imagine any bad trader who wouldn't be completely content to be a leech.

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'159055\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 11:48 AM\']
[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159041\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 06:32 AM\']
and he won't be satisfied with a download because no one's on the other end to get hurt.
[/quote]
Unless you have evidence to the contrary, I think this is going a little far. I honestly can't imagine any bad trader who wouldn't be completely content to be a leech.
[/quote]
I think Mark Raby in particular gets some perverse joy out of scamming people beyond actually getting the tapes.  Heck, he knew I wasn't going to trade with him and that he wasn't going to be let back onto our board, and he still wrote long, detailed emails to me about having multiple nonexistent illnesses that supposedly "made" him do what he did.  Some of the stories I've heard about Danny Voisine suggest a similar pattern.

Obviously I think this is is a small minority, but it's there nonetheless.  The rest don't try coming up with the elaborate stories until after they get their tapes; since only then do they decide to scam, they don't put a lot of effort into planning their excuses and said excuses are a great deal more hilarious as a result. ;-)

[MrBuddwing]

[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159057\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 12:15 PM\']
Obviously I think this is is a small minority, but it's there nonetheless.  The rest don't try coming up with the elaborate stories until after they get their tapes; since only then do they decide to scam, they don't put a lot of effort into planning their excuses and said excuses are a great deal more hilarious as a result. ;-)
[/quote]

I don't mean to get all psychological, but I'm reminded of a fellow over at the Internet Movie Database who has a reputation for posting user comments about long-lost movies that he couldn't possibly have seen. That he's also posted about long-ago TV shows which even I remember shows he's capable of being truthful, but I suspect he gets some perverse pleasure in fantasizing that he's seen movies that no one else in the present day has. Maybe the same dynamic is at work with traders who claim to possess items no one else has in their collections.