Author Topic: Is tape trading dead? (Read 9158 times)

clemon79 · « **Reply #15 on:** July 30, 2007, 12:50:12 PM »

[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159057\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 09:15 AM\']
I think Mark Raby in particular gets some perverse joy out of scamming people beyond actually getting the tapes. Heck, he knew I wasn't going to trade with him and that he wasn't going to be let back onto our board, and he still wrote long, detailed emails to me about having multiple nonexistent illnesses that supposedly "made" him do what he did. Some of the stories I've heard about Danny Voisine suggest a similar pattern.
[/quote]
Okay, well, now you're saying "I think" instead of flat-out reporting it as fact, which is what you did above.

Not saying Raby isn't a dick, and I don't even know who Vosine is, but you of all people should know to stay away from teh libel, ya know?

dzinkin · « **Reply #16 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:00:19 PM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'159060\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 12:50 PM\']
[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159057\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 09:15 AM\']
I think Mark Raby in particular gets some perverse joy out of scamming people beyond actually getting the tapes. Heck, he knew I wasn't going to trade with him and that he wasn't going to be let back onto our board, and he still wrote long, detailed emails to me about having multiple nonexistent illnesses that supposedly "made" him do what he did. Some of the stories I've heard about Danny Voisine suggest a similar pattern.
[/quote]
Okay, well, now you're saying "I think" instead of flat-out reporting it as fact, which is what you did above.

Not saying Raby isn't a dick, and I don't even know who Vosine is, but you of all people should know to stay away from teh libel, ya know?
[/quote]
You said "unless (I) have evidence to the contrary," and I just told you about the evidence. If that's not satisfactory for you, so be it.

Ever since someone back in ATGS defended Zach Horan against a specific allegation of trolling after I'd posted the evidence and after Zach had admitted to it, I've recognized that some people won't be convinced no matter what. Again, so be it.

dzinkin · « **Reply #17 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:10:36 PM »

[quote name=\'MrBuddwing\' post=\'159059\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 12:39 PM\']
I don't mean to get all psychological,
[/quote]
That's okay -- you're talking to someone who's minored in psych and taught it. :-)

Quote

but I'm reminded of a fellow over at the Internet Movie Database who has a reputation for posting user comments about long-lost movies that he couldn't possibly have seen. That he's also posted about long-ago TV shows which even I remember shows he's capable of being truthful, but I suspect he gets some perverse pleasure in fantasizing that he's seen movies that no one else in the present day has. Maybe the same dynamic is at work with traders who claim to possess items no one else has in their collections.

All I can say in response to this is that in my Abnormal Psych classes, we discussed people who think they have every disease there is (hypochondria), and people who try to give others diseases so they can get attention for themselves (Munchausen syndrome by proxy), but pretending to have diseases that no one else has would be a new one on me.

clemon79 · « **Reply #18 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:23:14 PM »

[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159061\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 10:00 AM\']
You said "unless (I) have evidence to the contrary," and I just told you about the evidence. If that's not satisfactory for you, so be it.
[/quote]
I honestly really don't care either way. My point is merely that it was an unfounded accusation, reported as fact, based on your opinion, based in turn on what appears to be circumstantial evidence. Now, you can do that if you want, but I think as a mod you should hold yourself to a higher standard.

urbanpreppie05 · « **Reply #19 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:24:27 PM »

Quote

or fakes his own death to avoid sending anything out (Mark)

Ah yes...I STILL feel stupid for falling for that 4 years later. But I did get him back...and good...

clemon79 · « **Reply #20 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:25:23 PM »

[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' post=\'159065\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 10:24 AM\']
But I did get him back...and good...
[/quote]
Do tell?

dzinkin · « **Reply #21 on:** July 30, 2007, 01:41:13 PM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'159064\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 01:23 PM\']
[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159061\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 10:00 AM\']
You said "unless (I) have evidence to the contrary," and I just told you about the evidence. If that's not satisfactory for you, so be it.
[/quote]
I honestly really don't care either way. My point is merely that it was an unfounded accusation, based on your opinion, based in turn on what appears to be circumstantial evidence. Now, you can do that if you want, but I think as a mod you should hold yourself to a higher standard.
[/quote]
Well, there is other evidence too... Raby claimed to at least five people that he'd obtained the Malcolm pilot on tape from a source other than Mike Klauss, and repeatedly insisted that he was under orders not to disclose the source's name. It turned out that the "source" was a PC-to-TV converter; he'd simply downloaded the pilot from Mike's site and played it on his PC while his VCR recorded what was going to his monitor. He wasn't asking for anything in return for it -- he knew that anyone who wanted it could have downloaded it himself -- so it's hard to see what his motivation could have been other than taking pleasure in the scam itself.

That notwithstanding, I wholeheartedly agree that people shouldn't be accused of doing things withoout proper proof. However, no one's arguing about what Raby and Voisine did or even their intent to cheat people, only the deeper motivation behind that intent, and there's evidence for that as well. Is Raby evil? Clearly not. Am I out of line suggesting some deep-seated psychological issues beyond leeching? I don't think so.

clemon79 · « **Reply #22 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:18:15 PM »

[quote name=\'dzinkin\' post=\'159068\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 10:41 AM\']
so it's hard to see what his motivation could have been other than taking pleasure in the scam itself.
[/quote]
He could just as easily be a pathological liar (well, we *know* he's that, but stay with me) who tosses morals out the window in the name of building his collection. As in, no, he wasn't screwing someone for the sake of screwing them, he was screwing them in the name of his own personal gain.

I realized you're convinced otherwise, and that's fine, but still. Just a personal thing, but I like to be sure I have ABSOLUTE IRREFUTABLE PROOF before I say something like that.

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #23 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:31:52 PM »

Either Danny or Mark -- or maybe even a third miscreant -- went to a great amount of trouble creating fictional episodes of Cross-Wits that were seeded into an otherwise ordinary looking tape-trading webpage. (Seems like there might have been one or two other fictional "gems" on the page as well.) He listed celebrity groupings just rational enough to be believed, including "theme weeks" that would have made perfect sense, such as several all-game-show panels. (Although one of his more fanciful listings, featuring an all-black panel, probably wouldn't have gone over well with some of the southern affiliates back in 1975.) He got my attention by listing Bill Cullen as the guests for some of the episodes, when I knew he didn't appear in them. Unfortunately, some of his false information has seeped into several wikis about the show.

dzinkin · « **Reply #24 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:40:45 PM »

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'159073\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 02:31 PM\']
Either Danny or Mark -- or maybe even a third miscreant -- went to a great amount of trouble creating fictional episodes of Cross-Wits that were seeded into an otherwise ordinary looking tape-trading webpage.
[/quote]
That was Danny. Mark claimed to have (among other things) episodes of Dough Re Mi, two more episodes of the WoF Host Week, the Money Maze premiere, and an ep of TPIR with Shower Game.

If I recall correctly, someone did a comparison of Danny's page to other trade sites and found that some of Danny's nonexistent Cross-Wits panels were in fact real panels from other celebrity game shows of the time.

urbanpreppie05 · « **Reply #25 on:** July 30, 2007, 02:48:24 PM »

Quote

Do tell?

If you may remember, I naively fell for his schemes of tape trading, and after quite some time waiting, I started to ask for the tapes. His "mother" then emailed me saying that Mark had passed away after a "long illness" or the like. I (rather stupidly) fell for his ploy, and posted it on this board. After some help from a wise quizmaster, it was determined that his "obit" was fake, and I had been had. To get him back, I sent a sympathy card to his parents apologizing for their sons' death.

I recieved the tapes a week later.

clemon79 · « **Reply #26 on:** July 30, 2007, 03:54:21 PM »

[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' post=\'159076\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 11:48 AM\']
To get him back, I sent a sympathy card to his parents apologizing for their sons' death.

I recieved the tapes a week later.
[/quote]
Dude, that is friggin' MASTERFUL.

My doffed hat, let me show it to you.

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #27 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:23:14 PM »

[quote name=\'urbanpreppie05\' post=\'159076\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 02:48 PM\']If you may remember, I naively fell for his schemes of tape trading, and after quite some time waiting, I started to ask for the tapes. His "mother" then emailed me saying that Mark had passed away after a "long illness" or the like. I (rather stupidly) fell for his ploy, and posted it on this board. After some help from a wise quizmaster, it was determined that his "obit" was fake, and I had been had. To get him back, I sent a sympathy card to his parents apologizing for their sons' death.

I recieved the tapes a week later.[/quote]
Indeed, a wonderful postscript to the saga, which is not included on this thread, one of the earliest from our then-new Invision home (which is why some of the posts are vacant and oddly configured). Mark is using two different accounts, both pretending to be his own brother, trying to convince us of his untimely passing. I honestly can't remember how it is that I figured him out so quickly. David hadn't joined us as a moderator yet, so it would have had to be something really obvious, like using an e-mail account that he had used to contact me personally.

clemon79 · « **Reply #28 on:** July 30, 2007, 04:33:40 PM »

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'159097\' date=\'Jul 30 2007, 01:23 PM\']
(which is why some of the posts are vacant and oddly configured).
[/quote]
This is a function of Invision + Firefox, I have found. Anytime I read a thread with posts below #15,000 or so, I find that my own posts in that thread are vacant. Open the thread in IE and it works just fine. Annoying as hell...I wish Invision would come up with some kind of tool they can run on our database that fixes that.

ChuckNet · « **Reply #29 on:** July 30, 2007, 09:35:25 PM »

Quote

Either Danny or Mark -- or maybe even a third miscreant -- went to a great amount of trouble creating fictional episodes of Cross-Wits that were seeded into an otherwise ordinary looking tape-trading webpage. (Seems like there might have been one or two other fictional "gems" on the page as well.)

Indeed there were...I also recall seeing anohter NBC Jackpot, an ep from that Armed Forces Week of Woolery WoF (which was plugged by Chuck @ the end of that ep where Tom Kennedy plays...coincidence??), as well as one from that week Alex Trebek guest-hosted, the next-to-last Gambit, the Split Second 1st anniversary show (a pic of which appears in the 1st ed. EoTVGS...again, coincidence??) and other rarities.

A closer look @ his "list" reveals a few discrepancies, however:

- Listing the "$10K Fishbowl" ep of Trebek HR and the finale as 2 separate shows when they were one in the same
- Claiming to have a Martindale HR ep where Dean Goss introduces the show as "Hair Rollers"...this was actually a rehearsal for the final ep, video of which John Ricci posted on his site awhile back
- Laying claim to the "entire premiere week" of the orig. BtC (my personal fave: When asked how this was possible, since it was a weekly show, he said he had 5 copies of the premiere!)

Quote

He listed celebrity groupings just rational enough to be believed, including "theme weeks" that would have made perfect sense, such as several all-game-show panels. (Although one of his more fanciful listings, featuring an all-black panel, probably wouldn't have gone over well with some of the southern affiliates back in 1975.) He got my attention by listing Bill Cullen as the guests for some of the episodes, when I knew he didn't appear in them. Unfortunately, some of his false information has seeped into several wikis about the show.

Actually, I went to the trouble of "de-Voisinizing" the CW Wiki entry, removing the incorrect info that was orig. posted to his lame CW page...the info now seen there about the GS host weeks in the 4th and 5th seasons is not a Voisine lie, they were added by yours truly after reading about them on this forum. :-) Ditto the comment about Kitty Hilton running the board for a week while Jerri Fiala played as a celeb, that info came from Kitty's ex-husband, Bob...maybe you know of him? LOL

And as if the lies about his collection weren't bad enough, the crap he tried to pull when people started hounding him was far worse:

- Using some twisted logic, claiming that those he dealt with had already recieved their tapes and were just trying to railroad him (yeah, we do that all the time)
- Playing God w/his nonexistent shows, claiming that he was in control because of the clout these rarities supposedly gave him
- The invention of "Phil Newport" and "Alice Foster", who claimed they had access to Danny's records and knew said traders had gotten their tapes, as well as telling them how lucky they were to be trading w/him

Generally speaking, those who really do have such rarities in their holdings are waiting to be discovered and/or completely unaware of the market for their gems...I had several such experiences myself, which helped get countless more rarities out there (NBC games from 79-81, Cullen Pyramid, The $128K Question, 70s Treasure Hunt, Denny TPiR, etc.)

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")