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Author Topic: Questions about 21  (Read 12966 times)

bttritle

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Questions about 21
« Reply #15 on: September 22, 2003, 12:33:52 AM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 07:07 PM\'] I am also firmly of the opinion that 21 didn't work because , while it might have been enthralling in the 1950s, forty and change years later it really is a fairly mediocre game, and NBC tried to make it interesting by throwing money at it. Hell, 21 is the damn POSTER-BOY for Mo' Money Syndrome. :) [/quote]
Regardless of why the show didn't work, it's not the reason it was cancelled.  TwentyOne met all the criteria for a successful show at the time it aired.  It revitalized a Monday night line up, it was a top twenty show on more than one occasion, and it was obvious that people were watching DESPITE the number of changes the made to the payout format.  

It was cancelled because NBC didn't want to recognize that a large portion of the population wanted to watch it.

bttritle

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Questions about 21
« Reply #16 on: September 22, 2003, 12:35:54 AM »
[quote name=\'tomobrien\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 11:05 PM\'] And the game with Chris Franciosa in the booth, where Chris had 8 and his opponent had 19 points.  Chris chooses 10, which means he can't even tie her.  Instead of stopping the game and awarding it to the opponent, Maury reads the question.

It is rather like seeing Sonny Fox stumble through The $64,000 Challenge... [/quote]
The game wouldn't have been over at that point.  Chris was the challenger, which meant the champ would have gone after him.  And the only time they stop the champion before a question is asked is if the declared point value wasn't going to bring them up to 21, because the challenger already hit it.  

So who was stumbling?

The Ol' Guy

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Questions about 21
« Reply #17 on: September 22, 2003, 12:54:54 AM »
There's another element in Quiz Show that helped explain why Twenty-One and other related shows in that era made such an impact - with threats to our lifestyle around us - especially the fear of becoming a \"second-rate\" nation to Russia, we had to prove to the world and ourselves that America had the strongest army, the best education system, and the smartest people - I think somehow we translated the fact that if someone knew a lot about art or boxing or anything else, it helped us continue a feeling of superiority - or at least the feeling that we have the people with the brains to beat any problem that comes along. TV shows with people smarter than anyone else in the world helped us feel better. The clips of the first program showed Twenty-One had the potential to be a disaster. The \"problem\" was solved by rigging. That was also part of the great disillusionment - we didn't have all the answers, and we were tricked into thinking we did. The premise of the original Twenty One had potential - bright people battling it out, gladiator-style. If you felt it was honest, it would be somewhat entertaining. The remake could have been entertaining as well, if they hadn't so eagerly tried to copy MILLIONAIRE. It seemed every recent big-money quiz was a multiple-choice fest, and that got old fast. Straight questions about one IQ notch above Jeopardy and slightly smaller stakes could have made this one stand out from the pack.

clemon79

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Questions about 21
« Reply #18 on: September 22, 2003, 01:38:02 AM »
[quote name=\'bttritle\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 09:33 PM\'] It was cancelled because NBC didn't want to recognize that a large portion of the population wanted to watch it. [/quote]
 Yeah, because NBC is ALL ABOUT shunning the largest potential audience they can.

This is the stupidest argument I've heard in a long time. And I'm involved in a pretty stupid argument elsewhere on this very board.

Ol' Guy: Those are some excellent points, and a perspective on the issue I hadn't heard before. Please post more. :)
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Dbacksfan12

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Questions about 21
« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2003, 01:54:54 AM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 12:38 AM\'] [quote name=\'bttritle\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 09:33 PM\'] It was cancelled because NBC didn't want to recognize that a large portion of the population wanted to watch it. [/quote]
Yeah, because NBC is ALL ABOUT shunning the largest potential audience they can.

This is the stupidest argument I've heard in a long time. And I'm involved in a pretty stupid argument elsewhere on this very board.

Ol' Guy: Those are some excellent points, and a perspective on the issue I hadn't heard before. Please post more. :) [/quote]
 Keep in mind he won a large sum of money from this show...
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Robert Hutchinson

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Questions about 21
« Reply #20 on: September 22, 2003, 01:59:19 AM »
[quote name=\'bttritle\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 11:33 PM\']Regardless of why the show didn't work, it's not the reason it was cancelled.  TwentyOne met all the criteria for a successful show at the time it aired.  It revitalized a Monday night line up, it was a top twenty show on more than one occasion, and it was obvious that people were watching DESPITE the number of changes the made to the payout format. 
[/quote]
Yes, but how much money was all that worth to NBC? Because 21 was not a low-budget show.

Quote
It was cancelled because NBC didn't want to recognize that a large portion of the population wanted to watch it.

Replace \"didn't want\" with \"failed\" and I might buy it. Maybe.
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clemon79

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Questions about 21
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2003, 02:12:22 AM »
[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 10:54 PM\'] Keep in mind he won a large sum of money from this show... [/quote]
 Which has nothing to do with his excellent insight into the temprement of the country in the 50's and how it might have affected the scandals.
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BrandonFG

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Questions about 21
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2003, 02:43:29 AM »
[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 12:59 AM\'] [quote name=\'bttritle\' date=\'Sep 21 2003, 11:33 PM\']Regardless of why the show didn't work, it's not the reason it was cancelled.  TwentyOne met all the criteria for a successful show at the time it aired.  It revitalized a Monday night line up, it was a top twenty show on more than one occasion, and it was obvious that people were watching DESPITE the number of changes the made to the payout format. 
[/quote]
Yes, but how much money was all that worth to NBC? Because 21 was not a low-budget show.

Quote
It was cancelled because NBC didn't want to recognize that a large portion of the population wanted to watch it.

Replace "didn't want" with "failed" and I might buy it. Maybe. [/quote]
 To be honest, I thought NBC cancelled it because the Top 20 ratings didn't satisfy them; that they wanted to be in the same league as Millionaire?
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Ian Wallis

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Questions about 21
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2003, 09:33:44 AM »
I saved tapes of about 8 episodes from when it originally ran, which I don't think I've watched since then.  I tuned into a few hours of the marathon last night and thoroughly enjoyed it - despite the \"dumbed down\" factor, I thought it was a good show and deserved a longer life.

I had one thought while watching this - if GSN is in the need for more original programming, maybe they should give this one a shot (for lower stakes, of course).
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zachhoran

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Questions about 21
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2003, 09:48:50 AM »
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 08:33 AM\']
I had one thought while watching this - if GSN is in the need for more original programming, maybe they should give this one a shot (for lower stakes, of course). [/quote]
 Keep in mind that GSN was fairly close to a deal for a lowered stakes revival of Greed last year, but the deal fell through. I think resurrecting Syndie Weakest Link(with George Gray as host preferably) would be a better idea, as they wouldn't have to lower the payouts much if at all(payouts on Syndie Link were often less than one-day totals on WHammy!)

cyberjoek

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Questions about 21
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2003, 11:50:37 AM »
But don't forget Zach, one day totals on Whammy are normaly mostly prizes provided for free or less then retail.
-Joe Kavanagh

Edit to fix typo
« Last Edit: September 22, 2003, 12:14:52 PM by cyberjoek »

zachhoran

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Questions about 21
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2003, 11:52:18 AM »
[quote name=\'cyberjoek\' date=\'Sep 22 2003, 10:50 AM\'] But don't forget Zach, one day totals on Whammy are normaly mostly prizes provided for free or less then retail.
-Joe Kavanahg [/quote]
 If the budget would hurt GSN that bad, they could do Link as a weekly show(presumably what they were going to with a Greed revival if it came to fruition)

The Ol' Guy

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Questions about 21
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2003, 12:01:21 PM »
Well, one thing to consider in the economics of any game is the amount of money the producers/networks get in plugging prizes. With Whammy - or any show that offers prizes as part of the take - anything the producers get either as straight trade or a fee for plugging small items like Rice A Roni - helps keep moolah in the till for the cash prizes. If a show has a pure cash outlay, like Greed or Twenty-One, it has to have the backing from somewhere, and most cable networks don't have that much cash. A lot of you make good points - the networks were so blinded by visions of ratings they thought would follow giant giveaway sums that they didn't think through the quality of the mechanics of the game itself. Enright himself said later on in life that Twenty-One was actually a pretty dull game. He mentioned Disney asked him to offer a proposal for a new version before he passed, and he was trying to work out ideas such as stacking categories and other gimmicks to add dazzle to the game. The point I'm working on is - if some of these games were to come back on a cable budget, would the mechanics of the game be strong enough to keep viewers glued to the set, since the money won't be there? Big money did nothing for the horrid $1,000,000 Chance Of A Lifetime game. If the programs were repositioned as challenges of contestant strategy vs. big money games, they might have a better shot.

The Ol' Guy

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Questions about 21
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2003, 12:03:39 PM »
Pardon my redundancy - Cyberjoek's post wasn't on board before I wrote.

goongas

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Questions about 21
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2003, 12:25:30 PM »
IMO, (I am probably wrong so feel free to correct me), 21 was rigged in the 50's because the show didn't work well without it being rigged.  It is no wonder to me why the modern version didn't work either.

Eric