GSN Ratings Tanking...

[rigsby]

[quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'166253\' date=\'Oct 10 2007, 11:11 PM\']
Actually, that makes me curious...if you asked random people whether they'd rather watch an episode of Wheel from 1988 or Card Sharks from 1988, which one do you think would get more votes?  Or, more to the point, more eyeballs?[/quote]

I think if I asked random people that, I'd get a lot of looks of confusion, revulsion, and/or pity.  And a lot of straight "no" answers.  Sorry.

[Jimmy Owen]

[quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'166253\' date=\'Oct 11 2007, 12:11 AM\']

Actually, that makes me curious...if you asked random people whether they'd rather watch an episode of Wheel from 1988 or Card Sharks from 1988, which one do you think would get more votes?  Or, more to the point, more eyeballs?  

(insert some obvious point about the television industry and $$$ that I've missed/left out here)
[/quote]


Wheel has been the most watched prime access show for some time.  Chances are most random people have already seen it and, if that viewer is like most non-fans, probably has no desire to see it again.  GSN should program to game show fans, just as ESPN caters to sports fans, TCM to movie fans, etc.  If they can't make money on it, use the transponder for something else.

[Joe Mello]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'166720\' date=\'Oct 14 2007, 03:46 PM\']If they can't make money on it, use the transponder for something else.[/quote]
I wonder if they can cook a hot dog on it.

Your reasoning has a minor flaw.  There are few people who don't like sports or don't like movies.  I'm betting there are more than a few that don't like game shows.  Besides, the definition of "game show" has gotten quite unclear recently, so then you have to make judgment calls as to what you consider game show material.

Initials aside, I don't understand why you can't have a network for games and have a moderately expanded programming scope.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'166720\' date=\'Oct 14 2007, 03:46 PM\'][quote name=\'Mr. Armadillo\' post=\'166253\' date=\'Oct 11 2007, 12:11 AM\']Actually, that makes me curious...if you asked random people whether they'd rather watch an episode of Wheel from 1988 or Card Sharks from 1988, which one do you think would get more votes?  Or, more to the point, more eyeballs?  [/quote]Wheel has been the most watched prime access show for some time.  Chances are most random people have already seen it and, if that viewer is like most non-fans, probably has no desire to see it again.  [/quote]
I've been holding off on commenting here, but I completely disagree with this reasoning.  To me, if you're polling random people, more people are going to say they want to watch Wheel than want to watch Card Sharks, because more people have HEARD of Wheel.  

This appears to be, for better or worse, GSN's programming philosophy.  As much as possible, their programming line-up is things the average viewer recognizes, whether it be "classics" like Match Game and Family Feud, or more recent shows like Millionaire and Amazing Race.  The problem with that approach is that it might gain you some casual surfers, who stumble across something they recognize and stop, but it doesn't build any loyalty.  You only get that with original programming, but the catch-22 here is that the average viewer by and large isn't motivated to seek out original game show programming.

I don't claim to know what the answer is, or even if there is an answer.  I'd personally like to see a bigger effort in original shows than I've seen lately (I'm still stunned they didn't make more IGAS), but that's probably just the fan in me talking.

[toddyo]

Matt, I totally agree. IGAS was entertaining. The analogy could be drawn like: More people have heard of The Price is Right versus Crosswits so more people want TPiR.  I don't buy it at all.  Variety is a wonderful thing.

Open up the vaults...show original Hollywood Squares, Joker's Wild while also air originals.

People will watch if you give them what they would like....if GSN would acknowledge that most of their core viewers want to watch the classics AND air them, while adding some of the new programming, you might have a channel worth watching. And...air the shows AS IS, quit squeezing the shows back for the same promos that run in every single break. Let's hear why these shows are classics...the announcing, the tacky end spots, Gimme Turtle Wax and Rice-A-Roni. Lemme hear that this was a Mark Goodson, Bill Todman Production. Lemme hear "This program was taped before a live studio audience"...or "Stay tuned for "Love is a Many Splendid Thing"."

Sorry for the vent.

PS....and drop the GSN. It's the GAME SHOW NETWORK.  DUH! All gameshows, all the time.

[davemackey]

[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'166750\' date=\'Oct 14 2007, 09:49 PM\']
"Stay tuned for "Love is a Many Splendid Thing"."
[/quote]
I don't believe a game show ever led into "Love Is A Many Splendored Thing." (The show took its name from the title of an old song.)

[Mike Tennant]

[quote name=\'davemackey\' post=\'166768\' date=\'Oct 15 2007, 07:09 AM\']
[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'166750\' date=\'Oct 14 2007, 09:49 PM\']
"Stay tuned for "Love is a Many Splendid Thing"."
[/quote]
I don't believe a game show ever led into "Love Is A Many Splendored Thing." (The show took its name from the title of an old song.)
[/quote]
To be even more precise, that song was the title song from the movie of the same name, and the TV show was loosely based on the movie.

[CaseyAbell]

[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'166750\' date=\'Oct 14 2007, 08:49 PM\']
Matt, I totally agree. IGAS was entertaining. The analogy could be drawn like: More people have heard of The Price is Right versus Crosswits so more people want TPiR.  I don't buy it at all.  Variety is a wonderful thing.[/quote]
Um, not sure if that's agreement or disagreement. Anyhoo, Matt's right, and I'm not just saying that because he's the moderator. Though being the moderator doesn't hurt. It's good to be moderator. To extend Matt's line of reasoning a little further, more people would prefer Wheel to Card Sharks because a lot more people seem to like Wheel. That's why the show is still on and still pulling nice numbers, while Card Sharks sleeps with the...well, I won't say it.

If GSN started showing original eps of Wheel with Pat and Vanna and Charlie and the whole gang, their ratings troubles would disappear in a hurry. Of course, the producers aren't nuts, and that's why original eps of Wheel are in nice time slots in syndication instead of some obscure cable net. The idea that GSN can rocket to ratings success with dusty reruns of obscure game shows is only a pet fantasy of game show fanatics like you and me.

GSN's greatest success with reruns, by far, came with Millionaire. Which wasn't exactly some little-known relic from the vault. I have no idea if GSN tried to snag reruns of Deal or No Deal, or if NBC was always going to repurpose them on CNBC. But Deal would have been an enormous ratings boost as well. If you want numbers from reruns, you need shows that more people besides game show fanatics have heard about and watched, in proven numbers. That's why GSN should grovel in the dust to get a TPiR deal, though that may only be my pet fantasy. (By the way, this source says CNBC got an average of 543K viewers for Deal in 2006. GSN would have sold the soul of every employee for that number.)

As for originals, GSN does seem to trying hard on their own shows. But only the poker show looks to have achieved consistent success, even by GSN's low standards. My guess on IGAS: it tried to be hip with the all-gay panel, which turned off the traditional audience but was hardly daring enough to attract a new audience.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' post=\'166782\' date=\'Oct 15 2007, 11:33 AM\']
My guess on IGAS: it tried to be hip with the all-gay panel, which turned off the traditional audience but was hardly daring enough to attract a new audience.[/quote]
It definitely tried too hard to be hip, but despite the fact that we kept hearing about the all-gay panel in early publicity, and we made our jokes about "I've got a Fabulous Secret" that part of it really didn't seem to matter much when the show finally aired.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'166786\' date=\'Oct 15 2007, 09:05 AM\']
It definitely tried too hard to be hip, but despite the fact that we kept hearing about the all-gay panel in early publicity, and we made our jokes about "I've got a Fabulous Secret" that part of it really didn't seem to matter much when the show finally aired.
[/quote]
Yep...I thought the most refreshing thing about the show was that they *didn't* make a big deal out of it, when they *could* have.

[Ian Wallis]

The idea that GSN can rocket to ratings success with dusty reruns of obscure game shows is only a pet fantasy of game show fanatics like you and me.
...
If you want numbers from reruns, you need shows that more people besides game show fanatics have heard about and watched, in proven numbers. That's why GSN should grovel in the dust to get a TPiR deal, though that may only be my pet fantasy.

At certain times in GSN's history, they have aired current games on a few-week delay.  Woolery's version of Dating Game, Eubanks '97-99 run of Newlywed Game, and the first couple of years of Hollywood Squares for examples.   Maybe they should try to strike deals like that again - put shows like current Wheel, Jeopardy and Price on in later primetime to "give people who missed them a chance to catch up".  The extra cost would probably be worth it for the spike in ratings they'd almost certainly get.

Since we've basically agreed that people don't seek out first-run game show programming on obsure cable networks, they could run the classics (Match Game, Family Feud, etc) and not-so-classic (Break the Bank, Go) during the day.  Maybe keep some well-proven reruns in weekend primetime (like Millionaire) and bring back interstitual games such as Decades.  I'm not saying that should necessarily be brought back, but they could do something like that again.  It was neat in the "old days" to have play-breaks between shows.  Who says every show has to start at :00 or :30 all the time?  Maybe try it out on weekends or late-night first to see it it will fly.

Good ideas?


/Did I mention that Drew Carey "gets it"?
//What about Betty White?
///Seems one or the other has to be said in a post these days

[TonicBH]

I was thinking about this randomly yesterday, and I wondered something: Would getting a currently syndicated game show running concurrently on GSN help it? They've done it before with the modern DG and NG revivals, perhaps getting something like MGC or Temptation would get a small punch.

Although, I'd have to agree with Casey that maybe getting some Wheel back on the schedule should be something considered. While I'm not asking for shopping-era episodes in prime time, seeing Jeopardy! without Wheel preceding or following is quite weird. (Yes, I'm aware of networks that air Wheel at 6PM and Jeopardy! at 1AM. Your network is silly for doing so.)

Of course, the best thing they could try at least is digging back into the vault...

/Speaking of which, where the fish is my damn Pyramid?!

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'TonicBH\' post=\'166833\' date=\'Oct 15 2007, 03:02 PM\']
I was thinking about this randomly yesterday, and I wondered something: Would getting a currently syndicated game show running concurrently on GSN help it? They've done it before with the modern DG and NG revivals, perhaps getting something like MGC or Temptation would get a small punch.[/quote]

In fact, current management's attitude towards "repurposing" is totally mystifying to me.    It seems to me that it would give a boost to "Feud," "Temptation" and "Crosswords" (the merits or lack of aside) and would be a big promotional boost to "TPIR."  (I don't see "Wheel," "J!" or even "WWTBAM" going that route).  Even prime time shows could help like "Pof10" or "...5th Grader?" or "Lyrics" (the latter two should be on Fox Reality, but it seems like that management has a firm "no game shows" edict, even with Bob Boden around).  And what about some reality comps like "Dancing?"

Of course, if GSN couldn't even make money on call-in-and-lose shows...

[Mr. Armadillo]

[quote name=\'TonicBH\' post=\'166833\' date=\'Oct 15 2007, 03:02 PM\']
Although, I'd have to agree with Casey that maybe getting some Wheel back on the schedule should be something considered. While I'm not asking for shopping-era episodes in prime time, seeing Jeopardy! without Wheel preceding or following is quite weird. (Yes, I'm aware of networks that air Wheel at 6PM and Jeopardy! at 1AM. Your network is silly for doing so.)
[/quote]
Doesn't practically the entire Central time zone get Jeopardy at 4:30 and Wheel at 6:30 or something similar?  I know that's at least the case in both the markets I've lived in.  That's what happens when you only get a half-hour between The News Block and The Primetime Block.

[Gromit]

I still think that GSN needs to re-learn the concept of Variety.

For years it seems that it's always the same old shows all the time. Fine, you want to run Millionaire, Feud, Match Game, etc. But a great many of us got tired of them years ago, because we've seen them all.

Give me things I haven't seen recently, and I'll watch. It's why I have season passes on Trivia Trap and Now You See It.