Author Topic: "Ups, Downs of Crosswords" (Read 4642 times)

Mr. Armadillo · « **Reply #15 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:22:35 AM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'168306\' date=\'Oct 30 2007, 10:17 PM\']
[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'168305\' date=\'Oct 30 2007, 08:12 PM\']
Not to mention, you'll have a focus group full of people who will wantto help make the show work.
[/quote]
And who accurately represent the viewing audience the show will eventually be presented to not at all.
[/quote]
Then schedule another focus group the next day of whoever you can pull off the street somewhere that isn't crawling with game show fanb0iz.

clemon79 · « **Reply #16 on:** October 31, 2007, 01:14:31 AM »

[quote name=\'narzo\' post=\'168308\' date=\'Oct 30 2007, 08:30 PM\']
EXACTLY. Don't even get me started on the flaws of the whole focus group idea...
[/quote]
I'm no fan of the concept, either, really, but in this case, it's the way to go. There is a LOT of crap on TV that is both a) successful and b) utterly idiotic. (See Fortune, Wheel Of.) If I'm in the TV business, I know producing shows I would want to watch would put me on the fast track to bankruptcy.

Neumms · « **Reply #17 on:** October 31, 2007, 11:50:54 AM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'168313\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 12:14 AM\']
I'm no fan of the concept, either, really, but in this case, it's the way to go. There is a LOT of crap on TV that is both a) successful and b) utterly idiotic. (See Fortune, Wheel Of.) If I'm in the TV business, I know producing shows I would want to watch would put me on the fast track to bankruptcy.
[/quote]

What's the saying about how a drunk uses a lightpost? For support, not illumination?

If they had focus grouped (look, now I'm verbing!) "Jeopardy!" it would never have hit the air. If something's unique, it won't test well. And it shouldn't take spending money on research to figure out they need to spend more money on prizes.

The trick is being a producer (like Merv was) who wants to watch (or at least knows, like Monty Hall) what the masses want to watch. It's a talent, honed by experience, and focus groups are a lousy substitute.

Here is a very funny, absolutely factual video of how they work (in advertising, though, not shows):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=624FxhJlVM0

clemon79 · « **Reply #18 on:** October 31, 2007, 11:59:46 AM »

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'168328\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 08:50 AM\']
The trick is being a producer (like Merv was) who wants to watch (or at least knows, like Monty Hall) what the masses want to watch. It's a talent, honed by experience, and focus groups are a lousy substitute.
[/quote]
Point made. My intent was more to stress that you are NOT going to get remotely good data showing a prospective show to a bunch of game-show geeks, if your goal is merely to see how it will play with a national audience. If you want your format picked to pieces and all of the bugs smoked out? Oh yeah, and I think there is great value in using a group for that purpose. But it's pretty clear that today's producers don't care about that all that much, if they think Joe Sixpack will watch whatever crap they throw at the screen anyhow.

uncamark · « **Reply #19 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:14:51 PM »

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'168328\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 10:50 AM\']
The trick is being a producer (like Merv was) who wants to watch (or at least knows, like Monty Hall) what the masses want to watch. It's a talent, honed by experience, and focus groups are a lousy substitute. [/quote]

IIRC, what Monty did with "LMAD" was take it to women's clubs as a program presentation--he, Stefan Hatos and Jay Stewart loaded up props in a van and drove out to the women's clubs, where Monty and Jay would do the show. They saw what worked and what didn't with actual audiences, not antiseptic focus groups--and also had proof to the network guys that the show would work with the target audience--and worked without big prizes or Mo' Money.

Of course, Monty didn't have fancy props or expensive computerized game boards involved--but isn't the usual line about a game show that is has to work just as well with or without an expensive set?

Joe Mello · « **Reply #20 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:25:40 PM »

[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'168332\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 12:14 PM\']IIRC, what Monty did with "LMAD" was take it to women's clubs as a program presentation--he, Stefan Hatos and Jay Stewart loaded up props in a van and drove out to the women's clubs, where Monty and Jay would do the show. They saw what worked and what didn't with actual audiences, not antiseptic focus groups--and also had proof to the network guys that the show would work with the target audience--and worked without big prizes or Mo' Money.[/quote]
I think LMAD had its share of big prizes AND Mo' Money (Super Deal, anyone?) but it survived because those were only part of the gimmick and not The Gimmick.

Quote

Here is a very funny, absolutely factual video of how they work (in advertising, though, not shows):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=624FxhJlVM0

How can you get the point of the ad, and yet completely miss it at the same time?

uncamark · « **Reply #21 on:** October 31, 2007, 12:45:30 PM »

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'168334\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 11:25 AM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'168332\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 12:14 PM\']IIRC, what Monty did with "LMAD" was take it to women's clubs as a program presentation--he, Stefan Hatos and Jay Stewart loaded up props in a van and drove out to the women's clubs, where Monty and Jay would do the show. They saw what worked and what didn't with actual audiences, not antiseptic focus groups--and also had proof to the network guys that the show would work with the target audience--and worked without big prizes or Mo' Money.[/quote]
I think LMAD had its share of big prizes AND Mo' Money (Super Deal, anyone?) but it survived because those were only part of the gimmick and not The Gimmick.[/quote]

Which is what Monty wanted to prove--that you could do the show in a women's club audience without any of the trappings of television and with toasters and relative pocket change as prizes and it would still work.

Neumms · « **Reply #22 on:** October 31, 2007, 04:32:13 PM »

[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'168332\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 11:14 AM\']
IIRC, what Monty did with "LMAD" was take it to women's clubs as a program presentation
[/quote]

That's why Monty gave away first-class tickets to exotic destinations, rather than crappy Vegas junkets via CheapTickets.com.

I'm starting to think tweaking MG's Crossword (because there's only one per show) could be pretty simple--if a spoiler advances, they go to the podium that's behind. Even if the lead player got it wrong. That player is still out the cash, but it's the player who's behind who's always on the bubble. This way, they're not changing much, but it would bring some sense to the game. And move the "Crossword Extras" to the last clue of each round. This avoids ending the game right after a spoil and makes for an exciting wager, rather than the anti-climactic ones they have now.

Robert Hutchinson · « **Reply #23 on:** October 31, 2007, 07:59:30 PM »

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'168361\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 04:32 PM\']And move the "Crossword Extras" to the last clue of each round. This avoids ending the game right after a spoil and makes for an exciting wager[/quote]
. . . as long as the trailing player gets the last one, and is within reach of the lead, and can multiply and divide by 2 in his or her head. (Based on a few episodes I've seen, I'm not taking that last one for granted.)

Mr. Armadillo · « **Reply #24 on:** October 31, 2007, 09:13:26 PM »

Hey, not every Final Jeopardy! is exciting, either.

uncamark · « **Reply #25 on:** November 01, 2007, 12:35:35 PM »

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'168361\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 03:32 PM\']
[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'168332\' date=\'Oct 31 2007, 11:14 AM\']
IIRC, what Monty did with "LMAD" was take it to women's clubs as a program presentation
[/quote]

That's why Monty gave away first-class tickets to exotic destinations, rather than crappy Vegas junkets via CheapTickets.com.[/quote]

Well, coach tickets to Hawaii and Acapulco on the daytime version, but yeah.