Author Topic: Barry & Enright in the 70s and 80s (Read 12506 times)

Jeremy Nelson · « **on:** January 04, 2008, 01:27:43 AM »

Hopefully, I'm not alone on this one, but I've always had this little thought in the back of my head that B&E tilted the scales in some of their games well into the 1980s. For example, The Joker's Wild was a game of chance to me, until I saw Hal Shear "summon the power of his lucky suit", and then get a softball question for the win. After that moment, it got me to thinking- what if Thom McKee, along with other long standing champs on TTD, just happened to get one of their better categories shuffled into the winning box?

To me, it was a miracle that B&E were able to get a game of chance on TV after the scandals. I'm still wondering however, if they ever learned to play by the rules.

Jimmy Owen · « **Reply #1 on:** January 04, 2008, 01:40:18 AM »

In a word, no. The risk of jail time for the perpetrators and station licence revocation for the facilitators would be too great.

AZAndrewG · « **Reply #2 on:** January 04, 2008, 01:42:11 AM »

Not to mention that by then, all game shows were (and continue to be to this day) militantly policed by the networks or the syndication companies. It's not uncommon for people associated with the show -- producers, stars, celebs, etc. -- to sign affidavits guaranteeing the genuineness of the game.

TLEberle · « **Reply #3 on:** January 04, 2008, 01:59:34 AM »

[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'173777\' date=\'Jan 3 2008, 10:27 PM\']Hopefully, I'm not alone on this one, but I've always had this little thought in the back of my head that B&E tilted the scales in some of their games well into the 1980s. For example, The Joker's Wild was a game of chance to me, until I saw Hal Shear "summon the power of his lucky suit", and then get a softball question for the win. [/quote] Every question on that version of Joker's Wild was a softball. That was the point. Anyone who cried shenanigans would see how innocuous the questions were, and that'd be that. How could you possibly rig a show that asked contestants to fill in the blank to Jan and Dean's hit: "Little Old Lady From (blank)".

Quote

After that moment, it got me to thinking- what if Thom McKee, along with other long standing champs on TTD, just happened to get one of their better categories shuffled into the winning box?

Or, for the contestants who won big ass streaks, EVERY category was their better category. (Or in the case of Kit, he would pounce on the Double or Bonus categories, and not even let the O player have a turn.)

knagl · « **Reply #4 on:** January 04, 2008, 06:46:43 AM »

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'173780\' date=\'Jan 4 2008, 02:59 AM\']
Every question on that version of Joker's Wild was a softball.

How could you possibly rig a show that asked contestants to fill in the blank to Jan and Dean's hit: "Little Old Lady From (blank)".[/quote]
You could have three jokers pop up on the reels when Hal and his lucky suit need them most... when that's the only thing that can give him a chance to not lose the game.

I'd like to believe that it wasn't rigged.

Jeremy Nelson · « **Reply #5 on:** January 04, 2008, 12:08:56 PM »

I'm just saying that when the whole Hal Shear thing happened, SOMEBODY in Standards and Practices had to have turned their head a couple of times, wondering "Did that just happen?"

I think that was my whole problem with TJW: the questions had no varying degree of difficulty. A $50 question was just as easy as a $200 question. I'm not saying that the three joker question should have been on the level of a million dollar question on Millionaire, but it should have tested his knowledge in the subject past what he learned in fifth grade.

LA the DJ · « **Reply #6 on:** January 04, 2008, 03:06:44 PM »

This is something I have always been a little curious about, though. TJW and TTD used what were generally new technologies (for game shows, at least). I admit I don't know much of the inner-workings of the wheels or the computer behind the TTD board, but it was definitely more complex than just making sure the cards are in the right slots or that contestants never see the material before the show. Were the methods in place at the time to make sure everything was technologically on the up-and-up?

comicus · « **Reply #7 on:** January 04, 2008, 03:12:14 PM »

[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'173808\' date=\'Jan 4 2008, 12:08 PM\']
I'm not saying that the three joker question should have been on the level of a million dollar question on Millionaire, but it should have tested his knowledge in the subject past what he learned in fifth grade.
[/quote]
Definitely. I mean, who'd want to watch a Q&A game show with fifth grade subject material?

clemon79 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 04, 2008, 04:36:40 PM »

[quote name=\'nWo_Whammy\' post=\'173818\' date=\'Jan 4 2008, 12:06 PM\']
I admit I don't know much of the inner-workings of the wheels or the computer behind the TTD board[/quote]
Wheels: modified slide projectors. No plausible way to rig on the fly without getting caught, because it would have to be a hardware hack.

Board: Nine ganged-together Apple II computers, probably driven by a tenth. Certainly more hackable, but it would have taken a pretty elaborate scam to do it.

parliboy · « **Reply #9 on:** January 04, 2008, 05:00:23 PM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'173828\' date=\'Jan 4 2008, 03:36 PM\'] Board: Nine ganged-together Apple II computers, probably driven by a tenth. Certainly more hackable, but it would have taken a pretty elaborate scam to do it. [/quote]

TTD wasn't hacked, but it was... exploitable.

If you pay attention to the category shuffle, you'll notice that the selections weren't all that random (at least, they weren't during the Jim Caldwell season when I first noticed this, because it was more obvious with all of those red boxes). In fact, there was a pretty set-in-stone order of movement, not unlike Press Your Luck boards. My pre-teen BASIC-using brain at the time said, "They're using the same seed for their randomize every time!"

If you were to pay attention to this as a contestant, you might have had a good idea what was coming down the pike and more carefully selected some of your early boxes, so that your weaker categories were off the board in later turns.

Now this isn't at all relevant to rigging, because there would be no collusion necessary to do something like this. I just thought it was really interesting all those years ago.

Neumms · « **Reply #10 on:** January 04, 2008, 06:15:23 PM »

One thing about "Tic Tac Dough" is the inherent advantage for the champion because he goes first. That could only help build a long winning streak.

"Joker's Wild" didn't have champions that lasted as long--if they were to rig it, presumably it would be to help get such a streak going, not just allow for one lucky jacket fluke.

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #11 on:** January 04, 2008, 06:23:50 PM »

I have to admit that in my teens, when these shows were airing for the first time, I knew enough about TV history to know that Barry & Enright had gotten into trouble for rigging shows in the past, and now here were two shows (especially Joker's Wild) that just looked eminently riggable. I didn't know the specifics about Standards and Practices, nor how the slide machine actually operated. It just seemed to my young eyes that it would have been pretty easy to do, so whenever any odds-bucking event happened, I couldn't help but wonder.

TheLastResort · « **Reply #12 on:** January 04, 2008, 06:43:06 PM »

^ I'm 35 years old, and I still wonder about it. But in thinking about it, when those three jokers popped up on the wheels, I'm sure S&P was all over it. I'd be surprised if there hadn't been a stopdown while somebody checked the projectors. I sure as hell would have.

davidhammett · « **Reply #13 on:** January 04, 2008, 08:31:09 PM »

[quote name=\'rollercoaster87\' post=\'173777\' date=\'Jan 4 2008, 02:27 AM\']
What if Thom McKee, along with other long standing champs on TTD, just happened to get one of their better categories shuffled into the winning box?
To me, it was a miracle that B&E were able to get a game of chance on TV after the scandals. I'm still wondering however, if they ever learned to play by the rules.
[/quote]
At the 2006 GSC, I asked Thom about his long TTD run, and whether or not he faced any particular scrutiny because of the scandals over 20 years earlier. He admitted that he knew very little about game show history, and in particular when he started on the show he was not even aware of the quiz show scandals that brought Barry and Enright to their proverbial knees. He did, however, get an abrupt introduction to them after one printed interview where he told the reporter something to this effect: "I've been on so long that they're probably trying to figure out how to get rid of me!" Apparently Thom got a very stern admonition... don't ever say things like that... from Mr. Enright after the latter saw Thom's quote in print!

Robert Hutchinson · « **Reply #14 on:** January 04, 2008, 09:13:14 PM »

Not having an episode at hand, I can't confirm it, but I recall from watching early TTD on GSN way back in the 20th century that the board pattern (at that time) wasn't random at all. Each category visited each box, in order, once. (That is, the pattern was something like 1-2-4-3-8-7-6-9-5-1 ...) Of course, while a savvy enough player could notice that and do a bit better, it's not rigging.