Does it really have to be "random"?

[ClockGameJohn]

[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'178196\' date=\'Feb 19 2008, 08:23 AM\']
If you notice on the Shell Game, the "shells" are lined with some type of foam rubber material -- enough to muffle the ball noise hitting the sides of the shell when they are moved around, but the ball still can be felt hitting the sides by the host to ensure that they keep that shell in play to the end, if they so desire.
[/quote]

It is actually just quite simply black felt.  I believe it is thin enough that the plastic of the Shell still helps to achieve the effect you are eluding to.

[narzo]

[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'178215\' date=\'Feb 19 2008, 01:33 PM\']
[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' post=\'178193\' date=\'Feb 19 2008, 03:32 AM\']

I always wondered  if there were 362,880 combinations(9!) on a 3x3 grid, why were there repetitions on the Tic Tac Dough board. Then I reailized, it was programmed that way since the monitors were hooked up to an Apple IIe.  That's how I figured that when I programed a random number generator program in high school, it wasn't "truly random" when you first start the program each day.

[/quote]

When I first started playin around in BASIC on the ol' IBM PCjr, I remember the rnd command was to give a random decimal number between 0 and 1..  so in order to have it choose a random number between 1 and 10, you would take the CINT (integer rounded to the "ceiling") of the rnd*10, so if you were given 0.395033988 as the rnd, the cint(rnd*10) would yield your "random" number between 1 and 10 = 4

The problem was, every time you ran the program, it would give you the same set of rnd's unless you stuck a "RANDOMIZE TIMER" before you started to ask it to spit out rnd's.. then it would synch up the randomization with some millisecond coding... Which yielded relatively random numbers, unless you ran your program and precisely the same millisecond more than once .. it wasn't true pure randomness, but it worked for making cheesy number and word guessing games
[/quote]

and to this point, and hopefully not taking this too far off topic, many people are still under the idea that slot machines of today are using a random number generator to determine the result of their "spin".  You can't create a RNG to do that so the machines have programed into them a sequence of possible results that are always "spinning".  Pushing the button stops that sequence.

I've wondered how these computer games of DOND for instance are actually placing the dollar amounts into the cases.  Then I realize what a wast of my life it is wondering that, and I pick up a book.

[lobster]

[quote name=\'narzo\' post=\'178249\' date=\'Feb 19 2008, 06:27 PM\']
and to this point, and hopefully not taking this too far off topic, many people are still under the idea that slot machines of today are using a random number generator to determine the result of their "spin".  You can't create a RNG to do that so the machines have programed into them a sequence of possible results that are always "spinning".  Pushing the button stops that sequence.
[/quote]

Incidentally I actually can answer that question, as for three years I designed touchscreen UI elements for a slot machine manufacturer here in Texas (the irony being that slot gambling is illegal here, these machines are on casino floors in Oklahoma, North Carolina, etc) -- you have to take into account that there is a formula based on what's called the volatility index, which figures in house-defined settings relevant to the paytable of the game as well as the desired "hit frequency".  Basically the higher the v.i. the more spins it takes for a machine to reach its theoretical payback.  

In our instance, there IS a finite list of outcomes (albeit a huge one) and a random number actually is generated based on that formula... and, say it has been determined that they player will be given a non-winning BAR-BAR-SOMETHINGELSE for example, an rng'ed number is used to decide which reel-stops (symbols) will settle on the payline for that one losing combination..

And on top of all of that , these machines are actually driven by a rapidly drawn single-player "bingo game" that's playing in the background, and the results of that bingo game "drives" what happens on the reels.  The reels themselves only reflect what's really determined by the "bingo game", but the player either doesn't know or care about that, as long as they see them purrty sevens ..

[Dbacksfan12]

Those are class 2 machines, which I consider sleazy.  According to The Wiz, they are found primarily in Oklahoma and Indian casinos.

Class 3 machines, which you find in Vegas, Atlantic City, and other major gambling markets work differently.

[lobster]

along this note -- -- whenever I buy a quick-pick lottery ticket , I often think about how if the cashier pauses to scratch their nose, or if I'm buying gum also and they ring that up first, how that 100% changes the combination of numbers I'm going to be given when they hit that quick-pick button, with all the random combinations flying by every nanosecond..

i remember reading about a guy about 10 years ago who says he was behind another guy in line at a gas station who ended up winning the tx lottery (I guess he was memorable?) and I remember him remarking in the paper about how that "could have been him if he had only gotten in line earlier" .. and the reporter helped dwell on that point further without researching the fact that that is virtually impossible the cashier would have still hit the button during the same precise winning moment had the men switched places.

you'll see people at slot machines get angry when they step away from a machine only to see someone else step up to that same machine and hit -- even though had the original player stayed at that machine they probably wouldn't have won.. it's all about nanoseconds, not "the next person who steps up will win the pre-determined jackpot pull"

/sorry for the non-game show rambling ...
//back on topic: what was the volatility index on TJW?  :p

[lobster]

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'178288\' date=\'Feb 19 2008, 11:19 PM\']
Those are class 2 machines, which I consider sleazy.  According to The Wiz, they are found primarily in Oklahoma and Indian casinos.

Class 3 machines, which you find in Vegas, Atlantic City, and other major gambling markets work differently.
[/quote]

You are exactly right.. class II machines, they are ..
But.. sleazy?  It's all the same outcome, mate.  Class II inner workings is just a silly loophole to get around slot laws.  As far as the player is concerned, it's indistinguishable and the end results are the same, as the house has the ability to set their machines whether it's Class II or III.  If you couldn't see the bingo display, you'd have no idea which one you were playing.

Alas, sleazy or not, I couldn't turn down the chance to work on 'em and see my work actually appear on the screens of slots on an actual casino floor -- even if that floor happened to be inside the Chickasaw Nation and not on the Strip at the Wynn.. .. quite a fun job indeed..  and a surprisingly incredible amount of competition and politics

/now the players, that's a different story..