Final Jeopardy questions

[lobster]

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'181571\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 07:40 PM\']
[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181569\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 05:36 PM\']just like opinions, we are entitled to our own expectations.. and so i guess my flaw that is being pointed out here is that i erroneously hold FJ questions to a higher standard than I should..  guilty as charged[/quote]There is a standard to them, just like Daily Doubles: they ought to be more thought-provoking than normal clues. But sometimes they're lay-ups, and you chalk it up.
[/quote]
true enough.. I suppose out of the thousands of shows it would be a challenge to write for that balance every single time.

/really liked the "Due South from Miami" clue from last week.

I enjoyed that one too, as that was the classic FJ-style thought provoking I enjoy about the finale.  You have thirty seconds and you just have to let your brain battle it out and try not to second guess yourself -- and that was an awesome clue for that.  If the game is all going to come down to who's right or wrong on a question, I have always felt if it's a challenging question the suspense and reveal is good television.  

btw, I got it wrong guessing Chile.  As Alex pointed out as a common mistake, I myself always picture South America in my mind to be more directly below the US as opposed to shifted that far to the east.. whoops :p   .. did you guess correctly?

[Robert Hutchinson]

"I guess my flaw is" + "guilty as charged" = pegging out the Sarcasmometer. I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic.

[lobster]

[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' post=\'181582\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:54 PM\']
Wrong. Final Jeopardy is an outdated relic from the Art Fleming days, and has no legitimate place on the modern show.
[/quote]

While I appreciate that you agree with my stance of the turd-idity of the Buffett question in question, Final Jeopardy is really the best part of the show and has to go down in history as one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows.  (The think music alone is known universally even amongst non-game show fans!), but it holds a very relevant position in the game -- all the daily double wagering and category/amount picking strategies all lead up to positioning yourself for Final Jeopardy.  If the game simply ended at the end of Double Jeopardy, the game would almost always be an anti-climactic finish.  

Last week alone, I believe three times the person in third place ended up coming from behind and winning thanks to FJ.  As long as there's not a runaway, the suspense is built until the final answer is revealed.  It's a great end to the show.

[TLEberle]

[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181599\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:33 PM\']If the game simply ended at the end of Double Jeopardy, the game would almost always be an anti-climactic finish.  [/quote]I think it would suffer a bit (anyone who watched the 1978 version can attest to that), but it would make late DDs and category sweeps all the more important. The removal of FJ wouldn't negate the earlier parts, it would make them more intense, since the finish line is placed differently.

[lobster]

[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'181597\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:27 PM\']
"I guess my flaw is" + "guilty as charged" = pegging out the Sarcasmometer. I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic.
[/quote]

..and therein lies the limits of textual conversation.  Unless you pepper your conversation with gratuitous emoticons to illustrate every tone intended to be had, someone will always take a well-intended statement the wrong way, just as  someone will whoosh and take a sarcastically-intended statement as complimentary... It happens daily on this very forum and everywhere else.

If my intentions were to be rude and sarcastic, I assure you the statement would be worded altogether differently.  I had no reason to go that route, as I was conceding to TLEberle's point, and I respect what he had to say on the matter.  I'm not on trial, here -- If I say my statement wasn't meant to be taken sarcastically and for some reason you have a hard time believing it, all I can say is simply that you're just going to have to take my word for it.

/:D

[Robert Hutchinson]

All right, fine. It is entirely possible to sarcastically concede a point, when one's intention is to try to exaggerate what they perceive as an unreasonable opposition to their argument. And just because there are sometimes issues with conveying certain things with text doesn't mean that it is therefore impossible for certain words and phrases to strongly suggest certain things.

I do find it amusing that there's any perception of me putting you on trial, though. I was explaining the part of your message that struck me as very strongly sarcastic, no more, no less. There was no "Aha! Now you must confess your lies!" anywhere in my response.

[lobster]

[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'181605\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 11:00 PM\']
I do find it amusing that there's any perception of me putting you on trial, though. I was explaining the part of your message that struck me as very strongly sarcastic, no more, no less. There was no "Aha! Now you must confess your lies!" anywhere in my response.
[/quote]

..the perception comes from me clearly stating I wasn't being sarcastic and you responding by saying "I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic."  ... welllll.. if that doesn't have overtones of an accusation, or at least a call for me to explain myself further, I don't know what to tell you.

[lobster]

[quote name=\'Robert Hutchinson\' post=\'181605\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 11:00 PM\']
All right, fine. It is entirely possible to sarcastically concede a point, when one's intention is to try to exaggerate what they perceive as an unreasonable opposition to their argument. And just because there are sometimes issues with conveying certain things with text doesn't mean that it is therefore impossible for certain words and phrases to strongly suggest certain things.
[/quote]

agreed, that is entirely possible, but it's not the case here.  people, myself included, say sarcastic things all the time to prove their point.  but your assumption here that my statement was not sincere is entirely your perception until you get confirmation from the source itself.  since I am the source, and I am telling you straight up what my intentions were, frankly, there really is no reason not to believe it.  I don't have anything at stake here to lie about this.. this is silly.

[dale_grass]

[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181593\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:18 PM\']
Matt, you know I have a great amount of respect for you...
[/quote]
Welcome to the I Have Respect for Matt (or is it Chris?) Ottinger Fan Club.  The t-shirts cost $12.95 so let me know what your size in and I'll get it ordered.

[Robert Hutchinson]

[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181607\' date=\'Mar 16 2008, 12:07 AM\']..the perception comes from me clearly stating I wasn't being sarcastic and you responding by saying "I'm having a hard time thinking of a phrasing that could've made it sound more sarcastic."  ... welllll.. if that doesn't have overtones of an accusation, or at least a call for me to explain myself further, I don't know what to tell you.[/quote]
I was responding to your disbelief that it could be read as sarcastic. I felt it obviously could be. I said so.

But, you know, holy crap am I done talking about this.

[DrBear]

[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181599\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:33 PM\']

While I appreciate that you agree with my stance of the turd-idity of the Buffett question in question, Final Jeopardy is really the best part of the show and has to go down in history as one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows.  (The think music alone is known universally even amongst non-game show fans!), but it holds a very relevant position in the game -- all the daily double wagering and category/amount picking strategies all lead up to positioning yourself for Final Jeopardy.  If the game simply ended at the end of Double Jeopardy, the game would almost always be an anti-climactic finish.  

Last week alone, I believe three times the person in third place ended up coming from behind and winning thanks to FJ.  As long as there's not a runaway, the suspense is built until the final answer is revealed.  It's a great end to the show. [/quote]

I agree with most of that, but with all the puppies yapping in this thread, I can't resist a brief howl...

It isn't a bonus round, it's the climax of the regular game, as you said. A bonus round is usually one contestant (or one team) playing against the house for bigger money. Final J is still part of the main game, just like the final round in Split Second, and so on. The big pyramid is a bonus round, by contrast. End of rant. (goes back in the corner to my blanket and bottle)

[MyronMMeyer]

[quote name=\'lobster\' post=\'181599\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 10:33 PM\']
[quote name=\'MyronMMeyer\' post=\'181582\' date=\'Mar 15 2008, 08:54 PM\']
Wrong. Final Jeopardy is an outdated relic from the Art Fleming days, and has no legitimate place on the modern show.
[/quote]

While I appreciate that you agree with my stance of the turd-idity of the Buffett question in question, Final Jeopardy is really the best part of the show and has to go down in history as one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows.  
[/quote]

I disagree. You know how sometimes on "Crosswords" a player will answer one clue, right at the end, and end up taking the podium and the win from someone who's been dominating the game otherwise? People complain, right? Call it a "flaw".

Then why is it, when a player dominates on Jeopardy, but then ends up in 3rd place because he couldn't work out the correct response to 1 clue at the very end, that's "excitement"? That's also a "flaw", if we want the winner at the end to be the best player throughout the game. And I do.

I mentioned the Art Fleming version, and the dynamic there was different. AF Jeopardy was a quiz game with a gambling element. Everyone kept their money at the end. The Final Jeopardy "wager" was a true wager. How much money do you want to bet on a clue about, say, Rivers? Then whoever had the most money got to play tomorrow, but everyone got some cash (unless they gambled it away). Final Jeopardy made some sense, because it was literally the final "jeopardy" that people placed in a quiz that was littered with them.

In the Trebek version, FJ is the game. The first 2 rounds are just jockeying for position. That's why we can have all this dreary talk about wagering situations (which I hate), rather than discussion about clue difficulty and appropriateness (which I find much more interesting).

I'll go even further. The short-lived Art Fleming revival was the best setup of all three versions, in terms of rewarding the best player with the win. Yes, the Super Jeopardy bonus round was kind of slow paced (judging from the 2 episodes anyone was seen recently, anyway). But getting rid of the trailing contestant after the J! round meant that is was less likely a player could just dominate. Playing mano-a-mano makes for a more exciting, and I'd say "fairer" quiz.

No, I wouldn't say Final Jeopardy is "one of the most revered and legendary bonus rounds in all of game shows", the cultural ubiquitousness of the "Think Music" not withstanding. It's a relic. But the semi-annualy "What do you think is the best bonus round ever?" thread isn't scheduled until May, so I can't be sure.

-M
Extra quotation marks, in case I forgot any ----> """""""