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Author Topic: TPiR Season 37 changes  (Read 72641 times)

clemon79

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #90 on: July 27, 2008, 10:01:22 PM »
[quote name=\'dale_grass\' post=\'192283\' date=\'Jul 27 2008, 04:12 PM\']
Hang on, wait a minute.  I think I see your point now.  I got that one-track mind thing going on.  From a math point, the numbers make a difference.  But yeah, if the prize is a $6000 treadmill or a $7500 pepper grinder, the contestant will probably do just as well on either one.

\Is that it?[/quote]
Precisely so. Contestants are going to go on writing checks between $1000 and $3000, same as they always have, and sometimes they will win, sometimes they will lose.

MAYBE the game gets .01 percent harder. Oh noes.
Chris Lemon, King Fool, Director of Suck Consolidation
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TroubadourNando

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #91 on: July 27, 2008, 10:38:24 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'192308\' date=\'Jul 27 2008, 10:01 PM\']
[quote name=\'dale_grass\' post=\'192283\' date=\'Jul 27 2008, 04:12 PM\']
Hang on, wait a minute.  I think I see your point now.  I got that one-track mind thing going on.  From a math point, the numbers make a difference.  But yeah, if the prize is a $6000 treadmill or a $7500 pepper grinder, the contestant will probably do just as well on either one.

\Is that it?[/quote]
Precisely so. Contestants are going to go on writing checks between $1000 and $3000, same as they always have, and sometimes they will win, sometimes they will lose.

MAYBE the game gets .01 percent harder. Oh noes.
[/quote]

And besides, wouldn't the general trend eventually adjust to the higher prices over time anyway?

Of course, I could be way off, as I wasn't around for the first upping of Check Game. This is just the impression I got the moment I read all of this.

PYLdude

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #92 on: July 27, 2008, 11:01:20 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'192305\' date=\'Jul 27 2008, 08:53 PM\']
[quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' post=\'192278\' date=\'Jul 27 2008, 04:00 PM\']
I'm not going play board mod here, but I do hope he learns from this and won't repeat it.[/quote]
Are you new here?
[/quote]

Not necessary.

Perhaps I could've made my point better by choosing different words, but I still stick by it. Making the starting and end values $2000 higher in Check Game does not make the game harder. If anything, at best it may make it easier, if only slightly. At worst, there is no change to the difficulty of the game.

Whether that means more people will win it or not remains to be seen...as we've seen over the recent years, the average contestant on TPIR does not exactly possess good reasoning skills (re: that one guy from earlier this past season...is the video still here, considering that I have a now sudden urge to watch it?).
« Last Edit: July 27, 2008, 11:01:35 PM by PYLdude »
I suppose you can still learn stuff on TLC, though it would be more in the Goofus & Gallant sense, that is (don't do what these parents did)"- Travis Eberle, 2012

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davemackey

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #93 on: July 28, 2008, 09:28:21 AM »
All this probability and math stuff is well and good, but you know that everything changes when Monty asks if you want to switch to another door.

Mr. Armadillo

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #94 on: July 28, 2008, 11:44:28 AM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'192308\' date=\'Jul 27 2008, 09:01 PM\']
[quote name=\'dale_grass\' post=\'192283\' date=\'Jul 27 2008, 04:12 PM\']
Hang on, wait a minute.  I think I see your point now.  I got that one-track mind thing going on.  From a math point, the numbers make a difference.  But yeah, if the prize is a $6000 treadmill or a $7500 pepper grinder, the contestant will probably do just as well on either one.

\Is that it?[/quote]
Precisely so. Contestants are going to go on writing checks between $1000 and $3000, same as they always have, and sometimes they will win, sometimes they will lose.

MAYBE the game gets .01 percent harder. Oh noes.
[/quote]

I would argue the game gets 33.3% harder, because now the checks will be between $1000 and $4000, since I doubt the $2,000 increase in the range will lead to a strict $2,000 increase in the average prize (more likely $1,000-$1,500).  Thus, your average check in that range wins 33.3% of the time instead of 50%, or in other words, 1/3rd of Check Game's wins disappear.

Alternately, here's the perspective I have (and the one I believe is more accurate).  Let's say Check Game is played under the old rules for a trip.  I'm not sure of the actual price (since trips can be so imprecise), but I can narrow it down to a $1,000 range.  If I'm right about my range, I win every time.  

Now, by your very own logic, that trip is 50% more expensive.  (I'm using the comparison between a $4,000 prize and a $6,000 prize, which seems to be what everyone else is using.)  Since the trip is 50% more expensive, I might only be able to narrow the trip to a 50%-larger range, or $1,500.  In that range, I obviously don't win every time I'm right.  Thus, Check Game has gotten measurably harder.  

Probably not 33.3% harder, since the price of the trip would be weighted toward the center of my $1,500 range, but is it too unreasonable to assume that my estimation of a $6,000 trip is going to be 50% less precise than my estimation of a $4,000 trip?

clemon79

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #95 on: July 28, 2008, 12:01:32 PM »
Alright. Let's approach this from a slightly different angle.

Steve Gavazzi, are stats kept on what the ARP of the prizes have been in Check Game plays since the $5,000-$6,000 range has kicked in?

If so, from that, anyone who cares to crunch the numbers (I don't) can figure out what the low and high ends for a winning check were for each game, and then see how many of those fall outside of a statistical norm.

Then, at the end of this season, we can do the same with the playings of Check Game under the new range, and see if that statistical norm is significantly different.

My position, which I will not waver from, is that it won't be. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't think I will be.
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Steve Gavazzi

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #96 on: July 28, 2008, 12:10:01 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'192407\' date=\'Jul 28 2008, 12:01 PM\']Steve Gavazzi, are stats kept on what the ARP of the prizes have been in Check Game plays since the $5,000-$6,000 range has kicked in?[/quote]
If we really, really wanted to go through with this and were getting paid for it, I probably know enough people with stats that I could collect all the numbers...but no, not in one place that would be easy to look up.

clemon79

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #97 on: July 28, 2008, 02:06:37 PM »
[quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'192412\' date=\'Jul 28 2008, 09:10 AM\']
If we really, really wanted to go through with this and were getting paid for it[/quote]
Lord knows I don't. I knew you guys kept some ridiculously detailed stats, so I figured those might be among them. No worries.
Chris Lemon, King Fool, Director of Suck Consolidation
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Mr. Armadillo

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #98 on: July 28, 2008, 02:56:32 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'192407\' date=\'Jul 28 2008, 11:01 AM\']
Alright. Let's approach this from a slightly different angle.

Steve Gavazzi, are stats kept on what the ARP of the prizes have been in Check Game plays since the $5,000-$6,000 range has kicked in?
[/quote]
We do have the numbers from last season, at least.

$3,466
$3,000
$4,000
$4,138
$4,150
$3,199
$3,198
$3,756
$3,199
$3,048
$3,969
$3,598
$2,495

Looks like a check for exactly $2,000 would have won 10 of the 13 playings last season.  I suspect the answer to whether a check for any specific number would win with that high a percentage over the entire Season 37 is 'no', but we shall see.

(Incidentally, Check Game was lost exactly 10 of those 13 playings.)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 02:57:17 PM by Mr. Armadillo »

DrJWJustice

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #99 on: July 28, 2008, 03:45:53 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'192407\' date=\'Jul 28 2008, 11:01 AM\']
If so, from that, anyone who cares to crunch the numbers (I don't) can figure out what the low and high ends for a winning check were for each game, and then see how many of those fall outside of a statistical norm.

Then, at the end of this season, we can do the same with the playings of Check Game under the new range, and see if that statistical norm is significantly different.

My position, which I will not waver from, is that it won't be. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong. But I don't think I will be.
[/quote]

Chris, good idea, but you need more cases to get any results that would be useful.  That's not me; that's just how stats have to work.  We're well into my day job here, so please trust me on this.  That's why I wrote earlier that we would need at least a couple of season of stats with the new range for this to be of any use.  Can we look at just S37 and get some ideas of where it's going?  Sure, we can.  

Seriously, if anyone is truly interested in doing this, please email me at jw_justice@hotmail.com (jw_justice@hotmail.com), and I'll let you know what I would need to run the numbers.  

I do think you are right, Chris, that this new absolute range is not going to change anything worth all this bandwidth, but it has been fun, for what it's worth.  :-)
« Last Edit: July 28, 2008, 03:46:20 PM by DrJWJustice »

clemon79

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #100 on: July 28, 2008, 04:30:22 PM »
[quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' post=\'192447\' date=\'Jul 28 2008, 12:45 PM\']
Chris, good idea, but you need more cases to get any results that would be useful.  That's not me; that's just how stats have to work.[/quote]
I realize this, but in the absence of data, we gotta work with what we've got.

I do find it fascinating that if you throw out that set-up-to-lose $2495 (I don't think anyone goes into Check Game thinking they're gonna have to write a check for AT LEAST $2505), every other price in that list falls within a $1200 window. I didn't think it would be that close.
Quote
We're well into my day job here, so please trust me on this.
Dude, I'm not looking to get published. It's a game show.
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Steve Gavazzi

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #101 on: July 28, 2008, 10:19:14 PM »
Since I hate to leave something like this half-finished, Check Game appears to have been 13-17 in Season 17; in a happy coincidence, it looks like two of the three mistaken listings are in that year.  It was 5-9 under $3,000-$3,500, giving that range a total record of 90-128, and 8-8 under $5,000-$6,000, giving that range a total record of 165-172.

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'192430\' date=\'Jul 28 2008, 02:06 PM\'][quote name=\'Steve Gavazzi\' post=\'192412\' date=\'Jul 28 2008, 09:10 AM\']If we really, really wanted to go through with this and were getting paid for it[/quote]Lord knows I don't.[/quote]
Yeah, I don't, either.  I'm just sayin'.

TroubadourNando

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #102 on: July 28, 2008, 10:53:41 PM »
You know, I find myself actually looking forward to Season 37, albeit slightly. I have to admit a lot of this stuff has been overdue.

tpirfan28

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #103 on: August 02, 2008, 09:19:08 PM »
A partial image of the new wheel's look (which is not purple..don't know if that's been covered yet) is here.

Looks very good, IMO.
When you're at the grocery game and you hear the beep, think of all the fun you could have at "Crazy Rachel's Checkout Counter!"

tvwxman

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TPiR Season 37 changes
« Reply #104 on: August 02, 2008, 09:24:15 PM »
[quote name=\'tpirfan28\' post=\'193189\' date=\'Aug 2 2008, 09:19 PM\']
A partial image of the new wheel's look (which is not purple..don't know if that's been covered yet) is here.

Looks very good, IMO.
[/quote]
So, they changed the numbers on the wheel......why? They look just like the old version, but more safecracker-y.

Dunno what the whole point on that was. If you want to change the look of the show, then hey, it's your show, change the look of the show!

This new regime is just weird.
-------------

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