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Author Topic: Ideas to revive classic game shows  (Read 7453 times)

wdm1219inpenna

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« on: February 15, 2009, 06:30:14 AM »
I miss quality daytime game shows.  I know the nature of the beast now for the major tv networks (CBS, NBC, ABC and FOX) is to have talk shows and/or court shows all the livelong day.

One of my favorites growing up was Card Sharks.  I had an idea to revive it, adding some different games in the mix, while still keeping the gameplay of the original as much as possible.

Two things about the original show that I didn't necessarily like were the straddling of games/matches, and the sometimes long, drawn-out pontificating by the contestants opinions on the various survey questions.  My idea resolves both.

During the first segment of the show, the two players, one a returning champion, begin playing.  Red deck up top for champs, blue deck on the bottom line for challengers.

The first segment of the show is called "HIGH/LOW SHOWDOWN".  The top 5 cards from each deck are dealt face down.  There is no freezing in this round, no questions in this round, and both players are required to play the 5 cards dealt to them, no changing of cards.

Starting with the returning champion, or the red deck in the event that it's 2 new players, the base card is revealed.   Each one of the other 4 cards has a dollar value, $50, $100, $150 and $200 for the 5th and final card.  The champ predicts if the 2nd card is higher or lower.  If they are right, they score $50, if wrong, they score nothing.  Then the blue player does the same thing.  Then back to red again for the center card worth $100 if right, and so on.  The player who is trailing before the final card is called gets to go first.  The winner of the showdown is the player who scores the most money.  The high scorer wins a $500 bonus, thus making $1,000 the possible maximum payout in this round.  The winner of this round also receives a joker, and that joker can be used anytime during match play to change a card.  I will explain more about that joker as we go along.  If the High Low Showdown ends in a tie, neither player wins the $500 or the joker, but both players get to keep any money won in the round, regardless, whether it ends in a tie or not either.

Segment 2 is called "CLASSIC CARD SHARKS".  This is played like the regular game from the 70s and 80s with the exception being, rather than asking long, drawn-out survey questions, regular standard trivia questions are asked, and lock out buzzers are used.  The first player to ring in has 3 seconds to answer.  If the correct answer is given, they win control, if they are wrong or take too long, the other player wins control automatically.  Winning the question allows the player to keep or change the base card.  Freezing on a bad card is allowed in this round.  If a player has a joker from the High Low Showdown, they can turn that joker in for changing a card.  A player can do this at any time, even if they did not win the question, but it can only be changed on a base card.  If the base card is an 8, and the change is made and it's another 8 for example, they can use the joker to re-change it again.  If the joker is not used at all and the player with the joker wins the match, they can take it to the Money Cards round to use there, I'll explain more of that later.  If the player with the joker loses the match, they win $500 consolation for the joker.  The winner of each game in match play during "CLASSIC CARD SHARKS" wins $500.  As with the classic show, 4 toss up questions are played, the 4th & final being the SUDDEN DEATH question, and the pass or play option would apply.  Again, if one player passes to the other, and that other player has the joker, they CAN use it to change the base card, even though they did not win the question.  This would require a bit more strategy for the player in control to consider whether passing or playing would be wiser.

Also, during this segment, the winner of this 1st game of the match gets to play a special mini-game called "HIGH CARD".  The next 3 cards from game one winner's deck are dealt out face down.  To win a $1,000 bonus, they must predict which of the 3 cards is the highest ranking card.  A correct guess wins the $1,000, an incorrect guess means no bonus money is won.  If 2 of the 3 cards are both highest and the player selects either of those, they still win the $1,000.  The reveal of the 3 cards would be done similar to how it's done on Price is Right's "Most Expensive" game, saving the chosen card to be revealed last, to build up suspense.

Segment 3 begins with game 2 of the best 2 out of 3 "CLASSIC CARD SHARKS" match.  If after this game, the match is tied, a 1 question, 3 card sudden death tiebreaking game is played, like what was done during the latter part of the Eubanks run.

Segment 4 is the MONEY CARD$ round.  One other difference for this show, if I were producer, would be to make the backs of the Money Cards GREEN.  To me, money is green, and the backs of the MONEY Cards should be green too.  I never liked that another red deck was used for the bonus game.

The cards would be dealt out similar to how it was done during Jim Perry's version.  3 cards on the bottom line, $500 of new money to bet, then 3 more cards on line 2, another $500.  Minimum bets are $100, and players must be in $100 increments until the BIG BET, where at least 1/2 the money must be wagered.  A $72,000 payoff is possible here.  The base card on each line can be changed, but only the base card.  Since $72,000 is far more than the $32,000 possible on Eubanks version, there is no changing one card per line anywhere you please.  Also, because the stakes are so high, the original NBC rules would apply for a double, if you bet $3,000 lower than a king and another king turns up, too bad, you lose!  

If the champion has the joker carried over from the match, they can use it to re-change one of the base cards if they wish.  

After the Money Cards ends, win or lose, the day's champion is given a joker.  If they did not use the other joker carried over, then they'd have 2.  A board of 7 numbered cards is shown, one of which has a dollar sign, the other 6 say "NO".  If the day's champion covers up the dollar sign card with the joker(s), they win a $25,000 bonus.

Returning champions can play for up to 5 shows, winning 5 matches, and a possible $500,000 total payout.

$1,000 for the High Low Showdown
$1,000 for winning 2 games of the match
$1,000 for the High Card mini-game
$72,000 maximum Money Cards payout
$25,000 Joker Jackpot game

$100,000 per day could be won x 5 days = $500,000.  All shows would be self-contained too.

I'd be interested in hearing your remarks.  I know the absence of the survey questions would be the biggest change to the game, and that many would be upset by this.

Dbacksfan12

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #1 on: February 15, 2009, 06:44:09 AM »
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'208210\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 06:30 AM\']During the first segment of the show, the two players, one a returning champion, begin playing.  Red deck up top for champs, blue deck on the bottom line for challengers.[/quote]When people write proposals such as this one, I always wonder why they include cruft such as this.
Quote
The first segment of the show is called "HIGH/LOW SHOWDOWN". (snip)
This seems rather drawn out and tedious, to me.
Quote
Also, during this segment, the winner of this 1st game of the match gets to play a special mini-game called "HIGH CARD".  The next 3 cards from game one winner's deck are dealt out face down.  To win a $1,000 bonus, they must predict which of the 3 cards is the highest ranking card.  A correct guess wins the $1,000, an incorrect guess means no bonus money is won.
I don't like the idea of having a bonus game just for the sake of having one.  Also unnecessairly interferes with that contestant's cards.
Quote
Since $72,000 is far more than the $32,000 possible on Eubanks version, there is no changing one card per line anywhere you please.  Also, because the stakes are so high, the original NBC rules would apply for a double, if you bet $3,000 lower than a king and another king turns up, too bad, you lose!  
According to the inflation calculator, 32,000 in 1986 equaled just about $60,000 in 2007.  $72,000 isn't a far cry from that.  Not offering a push is a horrid rule--it'd be the equivalent of taking a player's money in blackjack when both they and the dealer had 20.
--Mark
Phil 4:13

NickS

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #2 on: February 15, 2009, 09:40:13 AM »
My opinion?  If you snipped it so that you made your changes to Classic Card Sharks, I'd be fine with it.  I don't know if you need some of the other things that you added.  It would probably jumble things up.

I agree with Mark, though, on the no-push rule in Money Cards.

gsgalaxy82

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #3 on: February 15, 2009, 12:54:24 PM »
The final game is called the "Joker Jackpot" game? That sounds familiar...
Anyways, I'd keep it the same pretty much all the way through as the original. Money Cards for $40,000, straddled.
IF people really want an end game (attached to the Money Cards), here's my idea. 9 cards, one with the card "WIN" on it. For every $5,000 won during the Money Cards, a "bad" card is eliminated (yes, this is based on the H2 bonus game). If they find the WIN card, like H2, the prize will be determined on how many times they've won. First time a car, then $25K, then a trip, $50K, $100K etc.
If no end game though, I'd have a car given away in the main game by finding two halves of a car key dealt into the decks (yeah, another rip off, this time from Whammy!, ah well)

inturnaround

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #4 on: February 15, 2009, 01:07:01 PM »
I mean, if they want to do Card Sharks, they should just do Card Sharks.

And the reason people explained their answers was because they were told to by the producers. Otherwise, why would everyone do it?
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TLEberle

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #5 on: February 15, 2009, 01:09:30 PM »
Two things about the original show that I didn't necessarily like were the straddling of games/matches, Really? You couldn't wait 23.5 hours to find out what happened next? One of the things I liked was that the game could begin any time.

and the sometimes long, drawn-out pontificating by the contestants opinions on the various survey questions.  My idea resolves both.So you'd rather have it:

"How many people would buy a widget from China if it was half the price of an American one?"
"I'll say 48, Jim!"

Part of the fun was in hearing the reason why.

During the first segment of the show, the two players, one a returning champion, begin playing.  Red deck up top for champs, blue deck on the bottom line for challengers.Better than green and orange, I guess..

Quote
The first segment of the show is called "HIGH/LOW SHOWDOWN".  The top 5 cards from each deck are dealt face down.  There is no freezing in this round, no questions in this round, and both players are required to play the 5 cards dealt to them, no changing of cards.

Starting with the returning champion, or the red deck in the event that it's 2 new players, the base card is revealed.   Each one of the other 4 cards has a dollar value, $50, $100, $150 and $200 for the 5th and final card.  The champ predicts if the 2nd card is higher or lower.  If they are right, they score $50, if wrong, they score nothing.  Then the blue player does the same thing.  Then back to red again for the center card worth $100 if right, and so on.  The player who is trailing before the final card is called gets to go first.  The winner of the showdown is the player who scores the most money.
So if I have this right, you play the cards you get, scoring up to $500 for making it across...then you can score up to $450, then $350, then $200?

Does this seem counter-intuitive to anyone else? Did I misunderstand/mis-read it?

Quote
The high scorer wins a $500 bonus, thus making $1,000 the possible maximum payout in this round.  The winner of this round also receives a joker, and that joker can be used anytime during match play to change a card.  I will explain more about that joker as we go along.  If the High Low Showdown ends in a tie, neither player wins the $500 or the joker, but both players get to keep any money won in the round, regardless, whether it ends in a tie or not either.
An unhappy tie? Really?

Quote
Segment 2 is called "CLASSIC CARD SHARKS".  This is played like the regular game from the 70s and 80s with the exception being, rather than asking long, drawn-out survey questions, regular standard trivia questions are asked, and lock out buzzers are used.  The first player to ring in has 3 seconds to answer.  If the correct answer is given, they win control, if they are wrong or take too long, the other player wins control automatically.
One of the things that made Card Sharks stand out was that the show used questions you weren't going to hear on any other show. Sure, you save a few seconds each round, but at the sacrifice of the show's soul. Blech.

Quote
Winning the question allows the player to keep or change the base card.  Freezing on a bad card is allowed in this round.
Freezing on a bad card is the POINT of freezing in the first place.

Quote
If a player has a joker from the High Low Showdown, they can turn that joker in for changing a card.
So instead of giving players an organic reward for winning the question, you're going to add a new rule AND make it harder to win.

Quote
If the player with the joker loses the match, they win $500 consolation for the joker.
This is silly. Contestants on Millionaire don't get bonus money for losing while leaving lifelines.

Quote
This would require a bit more strategy for the player in control to consider whether passing or playing would be wiser.
This requires much more rule explanation than during the rest of the show when you want the explanation to be quick so you don't lose momentum.

Quote
Also, during this segment, the winner of this 1st game of the match gets to play a special mini-game called "HIGH CARD".  The next 3 cards from game one winner's deck are dealt out face down.  To win a $1,000 bonus, they must predict which of the 3 cards is the highest ranking card.  A correct guess wins the $1,000, an incorrect guess means no bonus money is won.  If 2 of the 3 cards are both highest and the player selects either of those, they still win the $1,000.  The reveal of the 3 cards would be done similar to how it's done on Price is Right's "Most Expensive" game, saving the chosen card to be revealed last, to build up suspense.
Why? Why not just bring out three metal boxes, one with $1,000, two with nothing?

Quote
Segment 4 is the MONEY CARD$ round.  One other difference for this show, if I were producer, would be to make the backs of the Money Cards GREEN.  To me, money is green, and the backs of the MONEY Cards should be green too.  I never liked that another red deck was used for the bonus game.
People don't have green playing cards, typically. They have red backs or blue backs. That's why.

Quote
I'd be interested in hearing your remarks.  I know the absence of the survey questions would be the biggest change to the game, and that many would be upset by this.
What ruined Card Sharks 2001? Changing from the most recognizable parts of the original show. You've done so many things to shoehorn a match into an episode that the format is all over the place.

You can say "We have a possibility of giving away $100,000 every day!" but big money doesn't solve the problems. Card Sharks would work if the Money Cards had a $16,000 payoff or $288,000. And I think the second bonus game is silly. You're going to end the show on a downer more often than not, and that's never good.

I miss the old daytime games, too. But I wouldn't tear them down, rebuild them randomly and say "Hey NBC, if you want to call me about Blockbusters 2009, go ahead!". I'd say "I sure wish there were more game shows on TV," and that would be it, because the affiliates aren't going to give back their time, and court shows are inexpensive to produce.

I have looked this over three times, I cannot figure out where the quote-thing went wonky.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2009, 11:58:53 PM by TLEberle »
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tpirfan28

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #6 on: February 15, 2009, 02:19:49 PM »
How to revive Card Sharks...

Make it more like this, less like this.

/Better poetry though
//I completely forgot how awesome that open was
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 02:19:59 PM by tpirfan28 »
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gsgalaxy82

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #7 on: February 15, 2009, 03:42:11 PM »
It's funny, I've said about Card Sharks 2K1: "The theme was pretty good. The set wasn't that bad. And really, the logo was pretty damn cool. Too bad the game sucked so bad."

mxc0427

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #8 on: February 15, 2009, 03:44:40 PM »
Card Sharks 2001 wasn't that bad. I mean, if the original Card Shark NEVER existed, and the 2001 version was the first of its kind, it would be a different story.

Still, it would've been nice if CS2001 kept true to its old predecessor (the red/blue decks, returning champions, poll questions).

BrandonFG

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #9 on: February 15, 2009, 04:44:17 PM »
[quote name=\'gsgalaxy82\' post=\'208231\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 03:42 PM\']
It's funny, I've said about Card Sharks 2K1: "The theme was pretty good. The set wasn't that bad. And really, the logo was pretty damn cool. Too bad the game sucked so bad."
[/quote]
I said the same thing about "Temptation". I watched some of the clip, and almost forgot that the show existed...our local affiliate aired it at 2 am (after an infomercial). Can't say I blame them. :-)

As for the proposal...there's just too much going on here. The constant explanations of answers kinda irked me too, but it gave both contestants a chance to earn their shot at the cards. And plus, it fit in with the "high-low" nature of the game.

I have no problem with straddling, and I'd rather see a more relaxed atmosphere, then rushing to fit everything into 22 minutes (my main problem with syndie D/ND), or having to streeeeetch the show's material out because you've reached your end game 17 minutes into the show (one problem out of many with "Temptation").
« Last Edit: February 15, 2009, 04:48:07 PM by fostergray82 »
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Speedy G

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #10 on: February 15, 2009, 04:44:29 PM »
Quote
Two things about the original show that I didn't necessarily like were the straddling of games/matches, and the sometimes long, drawn-out pontificating by the contestants opinions on the various survey questions. My idea resolves both.

I'd posit that you haven't resolved the first very well, and that the second is more of a solution looking for a problem.

My understanding of your format is that an episode contains a pre-game round, a complete Card Sharks main game with trivia questions, a Cashword-style minigame shoehorned in the middle, the Money Cards, plus the CS86 car game.

The most obvious reason Card Sharks straddled (well, besides "because they said so") is because the game takes a very variable amount of time.  There could be 11 survey questions in a match, plus enough high-low calls and incorrect calls to put practically the entire deck in the frame, or there could be two questions plus a couple quick trips down the row of cards.  

The only thing you've done to counter this is quick-hit trivia questions instead of survey questions with longer defenses of the answers given.  This particular improvement probably happened by accident simply because you dislike the contestants defending responses to survey questions.

CS01 did a better job of avoiding straddling than you, because they KNEW there would be seven cards in each round, and the only variability was in the clip chips and card changes.
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Fedya

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« Reply #11 on: February 15, 2009, 05:14:07 PM »
Quote
"How many people would buy a widget from China if it was half the price of an American one?"
"I'll say 48, Jim!"

Part of the fun was in hearing the reason why.

I agree.  Even though the contestants were making stuff up as they went along, part of the fun of Card Sharks is trying to guess how many people would admit to some crazy thing, and then trying to justify why -- there's great play-along value for the home viewer.

I always thought Power of 10 should have had a bit of that.
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gsgalaxy82

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2009, 06:09:52 PM »
I think the producers encouraged them to give reasoning behind their answers. Yeah, they might've been making things up.
To be honest, if I brought back Card Sharks, I'd keep the theme song and logo from '01, and make the set kinda like Feud, as in, retro but modern.

Clay Zambo

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2009, 09:46:45 PM »
[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'208245\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 05:14 PM\']
Quote
"How many people would buy a widget from China if it was half the price of an American one?"
"I'll say 48, Jim!"

Part of the fun was in hearing the reason why.

I agree.  Even though the contestants were making stuff up as they went along, part of the fun of Card Sharks is trying to guess how many people would admit to some crazy thing, and then trying to justify why -
[/quote]

Part of the fun, yes, and a *great* deal of the high-concept game: the questions are high-low calling; so is the card play.  

There's got to be another way to avoid straddling matches (and a way to limit the chatty explanations, if you feel you must) without cutting the survey questions.
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PYLdude

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Ideas to revive classic game shows
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2009, 09:57:14 PM »
[quote name=\'Clay Zambo\' post=\'208254\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 09:46 PM\']
[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'208245\' date=\'Feb 15 2009, 05:14 PM\']
Quote
"How many people would buy a widget from China if it was half the price of an American one?"
"I'll say 48, Jim!"

Part of the fun was in hearing the reason why.

I agree.  Even though the contestants were making stuff up as they went along, part of the fun of Card Sharks is trying to guess how many people would admit to some crazy thing, and then trying to justify why -
[/quote]

Part of the fun, yes, and a *great* deal of the high-concept game: the questions are high-low calling; so is the card play.  

There's got to be another way to avoid straddling matches (and a way to limit the chatty explanations, if you feel you must) without cutting the survey questions.
[/quote]

Hmm...

could you play with two longer rows of cards (6 or 7) with four players, with two players playing a game each and the winners of those two games getting to play one game for the right to go to the Money Cards?

Or would too much time be left over?
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