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Author Topic: The future of GSN  (Read 24543 times)

Jumpondees

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The future of GSN
« Reply #15 on: August 15, 2009, 01:17:14 AM »
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'223025\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 02:04 PM\']You can show video of Peter Tomarken having sex with the Kardashians while the Whammy pleasures himself[/quote]

Thanks a LOT Randy! If your ears start burning tonight, it will be due to the fact that after reading that line, I will be cursing you for providing me a nightmare for which I will never be able to un-see.  :-)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 01:17:45 AM by Jumpondees »

CarShark

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The future of GSN
« Reply #16 on: August 15, 2009, 07:04:55 PM »
Sorry about this one. It's long and choppy.

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'223029\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 02:22 PM\']I think GSN needs to expand their avenues.  If they truly are "The Network for Games", why not pick up some sports programming?  Show some college football or basketball on the weekends.  I'm inclined to believe this would help pick up the ever-desired demographics.  Then, run promos during those events for your other programs.[/quote]I thought they might go that way once they started Extreme Dodgeball, Ballbreakers and Greek Games. Competitions and sports, rather than primarily studio games. If they wanted to do that, though, they should have done it before Versus decided to take on ESPN. That makes things even tougher to start now. To piggy back on your point, I didn't have a problem with the idea of video game programming from many moons ago, just that they did it in such a poor fashion by redubbing old British shows.

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Another avenue I think GSN should take is to showing some movies once in awhile, that have games behind them; whether it be Quiz Show or Radio.
How much do you think it would take to air Slumdog Millionaire in primetime?

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223033\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 02:53 PM\']Before SoapNet got them, I thought it might be a good idea for the Sony-owned soaps (Y&R and DOOL) to run in prime time, thus creating The Game and Soap Network (GSN).[/quote]I think daytime in primetime would have been something unique, exposing the shows to an audience that may not otherwise see it.

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I think the bloom is off the rose for casino programming as well, though it might be good in late night following the NBC series.
Perhaps so, but GSN's gotten quite a bit of mileage out the poker shows and in first run, they still do pretty well. I'm still laughing at all the yakking Gabe Kaplan A.J. Benza did about the show possibly being cancelled despite having the highest ratings on the network at the time.

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Maybe run it like the independent stations of yore, with Sony sitcoms in the morning, game shows in the afternoon, a couple of Sony's action shows at dinnertime, Sony movies in prime and game shows overnight.  GSN would stand for "General Show Network"  I'm not sure if cable operators would like this though; they seem to want things in niches.

[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'223054\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 04:45 PM\']So the people scheduling GSN have to deal with what is essentially a transient audience - people who flip on the network, see a show they like, watch it to the end and resume channel surfing. The folks at GSN have to find a way either keep TVs on their channel, or give them a reason to tune in of their own volition.[/quote]What makes things worse for them, I'd imagine, was when cable operators started pushing it into the digital tier, like Comcast did in my area (Flint, MI). Instead of competing with 70 or 80 channels, GSN's now either non-existant or a single grain of sand in the 400-channel beach of life.

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1a. If you must air million-dollar shows, limit each show to 1-2 airings a week.
The problem with that is, even though those shows have considerably shorter runs than a 5-a-day series, they are also the most visible and memorable. That's one reason why some were clamoring for Meredith Millionaire a couple years ago. There was the visibility with the longer run. They probably can't wait until they can do the same with daytime Deal.

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2. Longer runs of your original series. Unless you plan on rotating them around, doing 8-week seasons of a show means that each episode is guaranteed to air at least six times during the year. If you extend those runs to 13 weeks, it cuts the number of repeats by a third. Whatever additional studio and staff costs you may incur will likely be recouped by the fact that all of the episodes will now stay fresher longer.
Well, GSN usually orders 65 episodes. I think they only did 40 for Friend or Foe and Catch 21. I think GSN in particular has been bad about letting new shows repeat too long since Whammy! debuted and went into reruns for a year and a half before season two aired.

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3. Rotate the bejeezus out of your library. On the other side of the coin, there's no reason to air your late-night and early-morning shows more than 13 weeks at a time.
They were doing that for a while. Both runs of Blockbusters. Three runs of Card Sharks. Tic Tac Dough, for a while. Now You See It at night.

[quote name=\'rwalker\' post=\'223070\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 07:38 PM\']Anyhow, I really have to question the ratings, for example, Lane Chain Reaction. There's not that many, and how in the heck are they pulling those numbers with a suck product like that anyhow? Karn Feud is being replayed like all heck, but doing well. Even though most people enjoy the O'Hurley version more anyhow.[/quote]I think GSN Live is such a boost for all of the shows. To answer the Oodles questions, more often than not, you have to watch at least half of a segment. Like, they'll ask, "What was the $100,000 Pyramid category "A CHOPPING SPREE" about?" It'll show up in the second round and be the last one played. Meanwhile, you've watched about 5 minutes of play and GSN scores a point.
« Last Edit: August 15, 2009, 07:14:54 PM by CarShark »

TLEberle

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The future of GSN
« Reply #17 on: August 15, 2009, 07:41:11 PM »
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223138\' date=\'Aug 15 2009, 04:04 PM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223033\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 02:53 PM\']Before SoapNet got them, I thought it might be a good idea for the Sony-owned soaps (Y&R and DOOL) to run in prime time, thus creating The Game and Soap Network (GSN).[/quote]I think daytime in primetime would have been something unique, exposing the shows to an audience that may not otherwise see it. [/quote]I think you've been snookered here.
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rwalker

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The future of GSN
« Reply #18 on: August 16, 2009, 11:56:35 AM »
At least GSN did get their head out of the sand, and put some things on Fancast. They are realizing that "on demand" is something people want. Money List and 20q have full episodes, and I believe I saw one episode of Lingo posted there also. It would be great if they could take the "vault" shows and post those also. Maybe it would be cheaper to run them on the 'net instead of the channel?

BrandonFG

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The future of GSN
« Reply #19 on: August 17, 2009, 12:54:44 AM »
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223138\' date=\'Aug 15 2009, 07:04 PM\']
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Another avenue I think GSN should take is to showing some movies once in awhile, that have games behind them; whether it be Quiz Show or Radio.
How much do you think it would take to air Slumdog Millionaire in primetime?
[/quote]
Given the awards and accolades (winning Best Picture), it would be several years. HBO will prolly get first dibs, then either one of the broadcast networks, and then the higher-tier cable channels (most likely TNT). My guess is sometime in the year 2026. ;-)
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TLEberle

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« Reply #20 on: August 17, 2009, 01:19:21 AM »
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'223001\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 07:50 AM\']However, if they're not doing that well overall, why go to the added expense?[/quote] This, right here, is the million dollar question. And this is also what the people who throw around terms like "rerun abuse" and say "why aren't they showing more/different stuff?" don't get. It's about the money.

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I think for a lot of us the novelty has worn off after 15 years.  The fact that they overplay some shows doesn't help - how many times can we watch Match Game or Family Feud and still be as excited as we were the first time GSN aired them - especially when those shows are on several times a day?
What constitutes overplaying? I could watch Body Language, Double Dare or some of the Barry-Enright shows for a long time, and your Match Game/Family Feud/Password group has such a vast number of episodes to pick from that it makes sense to have those options at the forefront.

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Some of us on this forum have stated we don't watch the channel much anymore.
But GSN isn't going to lose a ratings point because a handful of superfans decided to go get some fresh air.

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Lately they seem to be going after more recent shows.  Is adding shows like Crosswords, Trivial Pursuit or Temptation the way to gain more viewers?  Or maybe last season's daytime Deal or No Deal?
Here's the easy way to answer that: if people didn't watch it before, what makes you think people will watch today?

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'223029\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 11:22 AM\']I think GSN needs to expand their avenues.  If they truly are "The Network for Games", why not pick up some sports programming?  Show some college football or basketball on the weekends.  I'm inclined to believe this would help pick up the ever-desired demographics.  Then, run promos during those events for your other programs.[/quote]If I want to watch a college football game, I already have half-a-dozen avenues that I can get my fill. Game Show Network already has their niche, and every time they wander away from that (with the exception of Sunday Night Poker) they get slaughtered. Why would this be any different?

[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'223054\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 01:45 PM\']I'd probably employ this strategy if I were in charge:
1a. If you must air million-dollar shows, limit each show to 1-2 airings a week. It's ludicrous to think that viewers are going to follow a show like DoND on a daily basis, so rather than stripping the shows, put them on once during the week and once on the weekend. WWTBAM on Mondays, DoND on Tuesdays, 1vC on Wednesdays, and so on. There are three benefits to this strategy: you don't burn through all the episodes of a show in a matter of months, you add variety to the schedule, and you have a chance to air only the "good" episodes from that show ($125K+ wins on WWTBAM, for example).[/quote] But just because you think you've wasted an hour to watch someone fumble, stumble and bumble their way to a bailout at $16,000 doesn't mean that it's a "bad episode." There are times that I've rooted against a contestant and wanted them to fail badly. And when they do, I get to do the Muntz Point, and I'm happy.

(And what denotes a "good" episode for Deal or No Deal? Is the cutoff $249,000? Part of the fun of The Deal for me is watching people falling off of the tightrope.

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2. Longer runs of your original series.
I have no quibble here.

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3. Rotate the bejeezus out of your library.
Here I'll quibble. When I found out that I had gotten a special deal on cable for six months, I looked at the GSN schedule, and wouldn't you know it, there's the Pyramid Hour, and it's been the closest thing to appointment television for me in a long time. I will be a mite ticked if I stick around for a while and Pyramid gets chucked for something else.

The one thing that I loved from GSN a long time ago was Game of the Week. I would check out the schedule whenever it was point out, and see what was there. Sometimes we got something neat like the 2,000th Jeopardy!, or Eye Guess, or the Grand Final of Super Jeopardy! And sometimes it was the laughably bad Camouflage. But it was always something off the board.
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TLEberle

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The future of GSN
« Reply #21 on: August 17, 2009, 01:21:14 AM »
I don't remember if this was the same time, but there was something called As Seen On...Theater, and it ran from midnight to one in the morning, and it was a wild card of programming. If it was something not on the schedule, like a Pyramid or Super Password, I'd stick around. If it was a Match Game or Gong Show, I wouldn't. It was these "extras" that I looked forward to most of all.

I think the problem with something like this is that you assume that the Executive Producer of the channel gives a damn. After the Game Show Awards and Big Saturday Night, I dn't think that's the case.

[quote name=\'rwalker\' post=\'223070\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 04:38 PM\']Karn Feud is being replayed like all heck, but doing well. Even though most people enjoy the O'Hurley version more anyhow.[/quote] Do you have anything to back this up? At all?

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223138\' date=\'Aug 15 2009, 04:04 PM\']How much do you think it would take to air Slumdog Millionaire in primetime?[/quote] Too much to be worth it. You'll see that as the Saturday Night Drop-In Movie on one of the Big Three networks before you'll see it on GSN, is my bet.

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GSN would stand for "General Show Network"  I'm not sure if cable operators would like this though; they seem to want things in niches.
Really? Seriously?

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Instead of competing with 70 or 80 channels, GSN's now either non-existant or a single grain of sand in the 400-channel beach of life.
I'm not sure how much can be done with this angle.
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tpirfan28

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The future of GSN
« Reply #22 on: August 17, 2009, 09:28:28 AM »
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'223187\' date=\'Aug 17 2009, 12:54 AM\']Given the awards and accolades (winning Best Picture), it would be several years. HBO will prolly get first dibs, then either one of the broadcast networks, and then the higher-tier cable channels (most likely TNT). My guess is sometime in the year 2026. ;-)[/quote]
I think HBO already has it...here there's a Comcast commercial pimping HBO On Demand and the centerpiece of the commercial is Slumdog Millionaire.

Totally do see ABC getting the broadcast rights...would make a good Sunday offering, with a special offering of Millionaire before it.
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Ian Wallis

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The future of GSN
« Reply #23 on: August 17, 2009, 10:46:03 AM »
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3. Rotate the bejeezus out of your library.
Here I'll quibble. When I found out that I had gotten a special deal on cable for six months, I looked at the GSN schedule, and wouldn't you know it, there's the Pyramid Hour, and it's been the closest thing to appointment television for me in a long time. I will be a mite ticked if I stick around for a while and Pyramid gets chucked for something else.

Somehow if they did that, I doubt they'd remove the Pyramid hour.  I'm guessing what the original poster of that comment means is, find some spots on the schedule to regularly run different series.  Keep the popular shows like Feud, Match Game, etc., but also rotate in and out Break the Bank, Hot Potato, Dating Game, etc.  That way you're always keeping the schedule fresh and also getting some use out of the shows you have rights to.  It might even add some interest for the casual viewer to be flipping channels and finding something they've either never seen (and wondering what it is), or something they haven't seen in a long time and are fascinated by it.

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The one thing that I loved from GSN a long time ago was Game of the Week. I would check out the schedule whenever it was point out, and see what was there. Sometimes we got something neat like the 2,000th Jeopardy!, or Eye Guess, or the Grand Final of Super Jeopardy! And sometimes it was the laughably bad Camouflage. But it was always something off the board.

I'm willing to bet we all miss that.  For shows with only one or two existing episodes, it was a great place to show them.  I still think they should do something like that today.  Even if they can't/won't put some of those shows on the regular schedule, at least find an hour on the weekends to run "Games of the Week", or bring back "As Seen on Theatre".  

If "Rotating the bejeezus out of your library" is not possible for some reason, at least that would be a nice compromise.
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Jimmy Owen

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« Reply #24 on: August 17, 2009, 06:41:42 PM »
If they don't want to air them on the network, Sony could offer these fan favorites for download, or a Youtube or Hulu-type site.  Warner Bros. is doing custom mail-order DVDs of movies they don't feel have the potential to sell at retail, maybe Sony could do the same thing for their game show library.
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CarShark

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« Reply #25 on: August 17, 2009, 07:41:02 PM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'223190\' date=\'Aug 17 2009, 01:19 AM\'][quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'223001\' date=\'Aug 14 2009, 07:50 AM\']However, if they're not doing that well overall, why go to the added expense?[/quote] This, right here, is the million dollar question. And this is also what the people who throw around terms like "rerun abuse" and say "why aren't they showing more/different stuff?" don't get. It's about the money.[/quote]So at what point is it a false economy? When do you start to lose the Nielsen-counted flippers if and when they want to move past the recent reruns or don't like them? What else can you do to continue their interest if not changing things up every once in a while?

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What constitutes overplaying? I could watch Body Language, Double Dare or some of the Barry-Enright shows for a long time, and your Match Game/Family Feud/Password group has such a vast number of episodes to pick from that it makes sense to have those options at the forefront.
Obviously, it's subjective, and what makes such a statement hard to get behind is that I would guess that it doesn't apply to most viewers. Yes, Family Feud does get played 7 times a day, but to your point, they have one Combs ep, two Dawsons, three Karns and an O'Hurley. And if a person works 9 to 5, they'll just catch the two Karns and the O'Hurley, the most recent ones. (Which I imagine is no accident.)

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Here's the easy way to answer that: if people didn't watch it before, what makes you think people will watch today?
Well...you'd have to make sure that it was dropped for that reason in the first place. GSN's gotten a lot of play out of Greed after FOX just dropped it. I'm not saying necessarily that Temptation would burn up the charts on GSN, but I'm saying that knowing what we do about the saturation of the syndication market, don't discount the effect of low or bad clearances. I think my local CBS affiliate gave TP: AP a fair shot, with the first of two Feuds at 9:00 AM, then TP: AP, Guiding Light and Price.

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If I want to watch a college football game, I already have half-a-dozen avenues that I can get my fill. Game Show Network already has their niche, and every time they wander away from that (with the exception of Sunday Night Poker) they get slaughtered. Why would this be any different?
It could be different if executed well. I believe Dodgeball at one point did very well before they took it too seriously. And anyways, they've been holding fast to their niche recently for the most part, and they're STILL getting slaughtered. Something has to change.

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But just because you think you've wasted an hour to watch someone fumble, stumble and bumble their way to a bailout at $16,000 doesn't mean that it's a "bad episode." There are times that I've rooted against a contestant and wanted them to fail badly. And when they do, I get to do the Muntz Point, and I'm happy.

(And what denotes a "good" episode for Deal or No Deal? Is the cutoff $249,000? Part of the fun of The Deal for me is watching people falling off of the tightrope.
Ehhh. I don't know how many really have the level of schadenfreude required to think that way. I think that, depending on how early it happened, they'll just be bored or disappointed.

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Here I'll quibble. When I found out that I had gotten a special deal on cable for six months, I looked at the GSN schedule, and wouldn't you know it, there's the Pyramid Hour, and it's been the closest thing to appointment television for me in a long time. I will be a mite ticked if I stick around for a while and Pyramid gets chucked for something else.
But on the other side of that coin, what if Pyramid hadn't been rotated in? Maybe somebody would have preferred the last show? Or what if they don't like Pyramid?
« Last Edit: August 17, 2009, 07:46:50 PM by CarShark »

TLEberle

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The future of GSN
« Reply #26 on: August 17, 2009, 10:50:05 PM »
[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223242\' date=\'Aug 17 2009, 04:41 PM\']So at what point is it a false economy?[/quote] Never. I think you're confusing this with minimaxing. False economy is when a town builds a trolley right in the middle of downtown because it will cut down on car emissions and other happy crap, without factoring the resultant car crashes when it plows into an intersection, or without figuring that people like their cars and won't ride a trolley, and so they lose bundles of money on it. Minimaxing is what that asshat in my role-playing group would do whenever I granted him some experience points: it took hours for him to figure out the best way for him to apply those points to get maximum benefit.

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When do you start to lose the Nielsen-counted flippers if and when they want to move past the recent reruns or don't like them? What else can you do to continue their interest if not changing things up every once in a while?
Beats me; that's why they have guys who are paid to figure that stuff out.

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Obviously, it's subjective, and what makes such a statement hard to get behind is that I would guess that it doesn't apply to most viewers. Yes, Family Feud does get played 7 times a day, but to your point, they have one Combs ep, two Dawsons, three Karns and an O'Hurley. And if a person works 9 to 5, they'll just catch the two Karns and the O'Hurley, the most recent ones. (Which I imagine is no accident.)
And the reason they're picking the shows they do? Just about everyone can recognize The Feud. If you stop for a moment, you're sucked in, playing along. Just about everything that's on the air right now would be either recognizable to Joe American, or a GSN original. (or both).

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I'm not saying necessarily that Temptation would burn up the charts on GSN, but I'm saying that knowing what we do about the saturation of the syndication market, don't discount the effect of low or bad clearances. I think my local CBS affiliate gave TP: AP a fair shot, with the first of two Feuds at 9:00 AM, then TP: AP, Guiding Light and Price.
Crosswords was 6:30p here in Seattle on an independent affiliate, but it was still rubbish. Temptation was up against TPIR, and TPAP was the lead in to Feud. But they still just weren't all that good.

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And anyways, they've been holding fast to their niche recently for the most part, and they're STILL getting slaughtered. Something has to change.
Are they? Is the network profitable? They can pull a star and still make money if they have enough repeats of Vince making sure that the camera guy is following him? If you want to have an identity in the Ocean of Cable, General Show Network or Games/Sports Network isn't going to cut it.

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Ehhh. I don't know how many really have the level of schadenfreude required to think that way. I think that, depending on how early it happened, they'll just be bored or disappointed.
But why bother to pull out the big winners? Why not just let the series roll along? Won't people be just as bored with Yet Another Big Winner?

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Or what if they don't like Pyramid?
Please point me in the direction of this person. I need to have a good long Clockwork-Orange style chat with this person.
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DjohnsonCB

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The future of GSN
« Reply #27 on: August 17, 2009, 11:30:28 PM »
The story of GSN is like the story of TV Land.  When it began a lot of you were getting it--along with Cullen TPIR and a few other goodies I'd have loved to see--but I couldn't.  Then suddenly one day I got it, and at least got to enjoy those mid-60s WML? shows from CBS with those big-haired female celebs and civilians, plus an unexpected double bonus: late Sunday airings of Monty Hall BTC and Trebek's Double Dare, two games that didn't air on my then-local CBS station in their original runs.  But now there's nothing of interest to me on GSN and I wonder sometimes how much longer it will last.

The REAL frustration for me is that all the tapes of Spin-Off are available for airing, and GSN is the only network potentially capable of showing them...but of course, they won't touch it, probably because it's not a G-T or B-E show.  It surely can't be because it was short-lived, not when GSN has aired the same one ep of Number Please and the same handful of Play Your Hunch eps more than once.

If Food Network ever ends production of Unwrapped and it only airs in reruns from then on, I may drop my expanded cable channels.
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BrandonFG

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The future of GSN
« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2009, 11:33:07 PM »
[quote name=\'DjohnsonCB\' post=\'223258\' date=\'Aug 17 2009, 11:30 PM\']The REAL frustration for me is that all the tapes of Spin-Off are available for airing, and GSN is the only network potentially capable of showing them...but of course, they won't touch it, probably because it's not a G-T or B-E show.  It surely can't be because it was short-lived, not when GSN has aired the same one ep of Number Please and the same handful of Play Your Hunch eps more than once.[/quote]
On one hand, I could make the argument that the show is extremely obscure, but on the other hand, I doubt that that many more casual viewers have heard of Number Please or Play Your Hunch. However, I doubt anyone at GSN is even aware of a show entitled Spin Off.
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CarShark

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« Reply #29 on: August 18, 2009, 01:20:54 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'223255\' date=\'Aug 17 2009, 10:50 PM\']
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And anyways, they've been holding fast to their niche recently for the most part, and they're STILL getting slaughtered. Something has to change.
Are they? Is the network profitable? They can pull a star and still make money if they have enough repeats of Vince making sure that the camera guy is following him? If you want to have an identity in the Ocean of Cable, General Show Network or Games/Sports Network isn't going to cut it. [/quote]If that's the case, then why does it seem like so many networks, especially the ones lower on the dial, can't abandon their niches fast enough? TV Land. American Movie Classics. Cartoon Network. History Channel. Bravo. A&E. What good is an identity if it doesn't grab eyeballs?

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But why bother to pull out the big winners? Why not just let the series roll along? Won't people be just as bored with Yet Another Big Winner?
I've heard of people getting tired of losers, but the only time I've heard of people get tired of too many big winners was early in Twenty-One's run, and that was years before "Pick A Box, Win A Million" became a popular format.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2009, 02:06:38 AM by CarShark »