Author Topic: The future of GSN (Read 24524 times)

Dbacksfan12 · « **Reply #60 on:** August 21, 2009, 01:19:16 PM »

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223594\' date=\'Aug 21 2009, 07:34 AM\']So what should become of the "Spin-Off" tapes? Now do you see why all those shows of the '70s were wiped? The point remains that for you and me $30,000 is a lot of money. To a big company it is not. A quarter of a penny's increase in your cable bill could cover the expense.[/quote]Now you're just being ridiculous. You know darn well why it isn't worth it. Just because the show has some kind of sentimental value to a couple of y'all doesn't mean its a profitable expenditure.

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So it really doesn't matter that the tapes exist. They will never be able to be seen. The storage costs might exceed the profit potential, so why save them?

You're not really a forward thinker, are you? Perhaps technology will change in the future, where it becomes much less expensive (relatively) to transfer the tapes. Or, some other network may want to show reruns of this crap down the road.

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I'm afraid of the can o'worms I'm going to open here, but I do know of someone who does have the majority of a 70's series we think is wiped out sitting in his garage in original 2" form.

Though I won't get an answer; I think its "Celebrity Sweepstakes".

Jimmy Owen · « **Reply #61 on:** August 21, 2009, 01:41:53 PM »

I hope it's Ron Greenberg or Don Lipp!

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #62 on:** August 21, 2009, 01:44:53 PM »

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223605\' date=\'Aug 21 2009, 10:06 AM\']So it really doesn't matter that the tapes exist. They will never be able to be seen. The storage costs might exceed the profit potential, so why save them?[/quote]
A valid question, and one that a business asks itself all the time. What way too many of us refuse to accept is that profit-making companies do not exist to be our private archivists and historians. How presumtuous of us to tell Sony that $30K isn't much money for them, so get to work on dubbing those tapes for us, chop-chop.

On the other hand, who knows what technologies and possibilities might exist in the future? If the tapes are destroyed, the chance to do anything with them down the road falls to zero. If the tapes sit on a shelf somewhere, the chance to do anything with them may be negligible, but it remains greater than zero. Sony may be waiting for one of you to win the lottery and purchase the tapes from them outright.

The problem is not just with big corporations. As Mike said, some collectors have acquired shows in these obsolete formats, and choose not to have them converted. ("Gee, a nice car, or all 60 episodes of a seventies game show I might watch once?") The Library of Congress is also holding massive amounts of early NBC product, including ridiculous numbers of game shows, on filmed kinescopes. They're in no hurry to get those films converrted either.

tpirfan28 · « **Reply #63 on:** August 21, 2009, 01:50:38 PM »

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'223607\' date=\'Aug 21 2009, 10:26 AM\']An interesting development to watch is the "profitability" of the 20 Hollywood Squares episodes on Hulu. If their bean crunchers and log watchers find that it can be profitable, this may be over time where we see our classics, especially the 2nd tier ones, and not so much on GSN. So please go out and buy all of the Vlasic pickles and Axe body products you can.[/quote]
I sure hope you are right.

/Wasn't there a Fremantle or GSN or Sony VOD in the works? Or something like that?

Jimmy Owen · « **Reply #64 on:** August 21, 2009, 01:59:58 PM »

Belaboring the point, here's an example of the kind of money Sony is able to spend when it wants to. Granted they'll make their money back quickly, but they do have the cash. Sony pays 50 million I know, I know, different divisions, etc.

clemon79 · « **Reply #65 on:** August 21, 2009, 02:10:27 PM »

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223643\' date=\'Aug 21 2009, 10:59 AM\']Granted they'll make their money back quickly,[/quote]
This is the point everyone else is trying to emphasize that either you're not getting or not acknowledging. Yes, if they believe they will make money on the transaction, of course they will spend it, since they're a for-profit corporation. That's what they do. And if they don't believe that, they won't. Clearly they don't believe that.

I genuinely don't understand why you're even trying to argue this very basic point, unless you're just stirring the pot for the sake of stirring it. And if you are, shame on me for falling for it.

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but they do have the cash.

A multibillion dollar corporation has millions of dollars in investment capital? 'Scuse me, I'm gonna head off to file that under No Shiat...

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #66 on:** August 21, 2009, 02:39:01 PM »

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223643\' date=\'Aug 21 2009, 01:59 PM\']Belaboring the point[/quote]
Yes, you are. And missing ours.

CarShark · « **Reply #67 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:45:29 AM »

Just to be clear: Are Sony executives the one to make the call about converting a series or would GSN executives decide that?

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #68 on:** August 22, 2009, 11:26:53 AM »

[quote name=\'CarShark\' post=\'223734\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 01:45 AM\']Just to be clear: Are Sony executives the one to make the call about converting a series or would GSN executives decide that?[/quote]
Ultimately, the decision belongs to whomever owns the original tapes, which for the purposes of our discussion would be Sony. Still, if GSN executives believed they could make money off a converted series, and were willing to pay for it out of their own budget, then it would probably happen. The rightsholders are not monsters who are deliberately refusing to do anything with these old tapes out of spite. Give them a reason that makes financial sense, and it'll get done.

mmb5 · « **Reply #69 on:** August 22, 2009, 11:34:22 AM »

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'223750\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 11:26 AM\']The rightsholders are not monsters who are deliberately refusing to do anything with these old tapes out of spite. Give them a reason that makes financial sense, and it'll get done.[/quote]
I believe the owners of the 60s chat/screamfest The Joe Pyne Show will willing you make a copy of any show since they do have a complete archive -- for $700. At least it's yours to keep. This would be an example of the rights holders having the show, but also knowing there is no market for it.

Go grab a Brooks and Marsh, open up to any pre-75 year, and count the number of series that have never been syndicated. It's quite a number. Wonder where those tapes are now?

--Mike

Jimmy Owen · « **Reply #70 on:** August 22, 2009, 12:27:59 PM »

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'223751\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 11:34 AM\'][quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'223750\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 11:26 AM\']The rightsholders are not monsters who are deliberately refusing to do anything with these old tapes out of spite. Give them a reason that makes financial sense, and it'll get done.[/quote]
I believe the owners of the 60s chat/screamfest The Joe Pyne Show will willing you make a copy of any show since they do have a complete archive -- for $700. At least it's yours to keep. This would be an example of the rights holders having the show, but also knowing there is no market for it.

Go grab a Brooks and Marsh, open up to any pre-75 year, and count the number of series that have never been syndicated. It's quite a number. Wonder where those tapes are now?

--Mike
[/quote]

I've seen infomercials for DVD's of the old Dean Martin, Flip Wilson, Red Skelton shows, etc. Soaps; probably limited interest in archival even by soap fans, except for Dark Shadows and Peyton Place, which are getting the full season DVD treatments. Dramas and sitcoms were shot on film, no worries there. It would be nice for everything to be available, but the world won't end if it isn't.

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #71 on:** August 22, 2009, 01:06:45 PM »

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'223759\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 12:27 PM\']I've seen infomercials for DVD's of the old Dean Martin, Flip Wilson, Red Skelton shows, etc.[/quote]
Variety shows are a strange problem for several reasons, mostly those pesky music rights issues. I like seeing the original, unedited, complete hours (hey, throw in the commercials if you want!) and those are hard to come by. I have a couple of Dean Martin collections, and they're edited highlights with reminiscences thrown in. The Flip Wilson disc claims to have five episodes, but they're the half-hour edited down versions for syndication with virtually no musical numbers. A few full-length episodes of The Carol Burnett Show came out a while back, but the "complete series" is of the expurgated Carol Burnett and Friends version.

My favorite set is of the Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show. Not for the Beatles themselves, but for the fact that they're the entire episodes (plus commercials, thanks!). So we get to see the flow of the show as it originally happened, with acts that would never be included in a "best-of" collection but are still fascinating in their own way.

Eric Paddon · « **Reply #72 on:** August 22, 2009, 05:26:28 PM »

The only hope I think we as collectors have for seeing the classics and the wonderful obscurities become available to us again is if (1) the cost of digitizing decreases with new technologies and (2) they are made available in some kind of on-line viewing format that would allow for downloading perhaps so that the people who *really* want this stuff have the ability to get it.

But I honestly don't foresee that kind of technological capability existing for a couple decades at minimum if ever.

In the meantime, I have to admit I'm at a stage of life where with over 6500 game show episodes in my collection, the time has come for me to stop thinking about what else I can acquire that I don't have and to just be more concerned with preserving what I have long-term through conversion of the tapes to DVD and to come up with a neater structure of organization that will let me enjoy these classics again and again with greater ease. As far as new gems emerging, I'm through looking to cable venues and feel the only hope lies in more people emerging with their own personally recorded copies of "lost" shows from the late 70s because they were contestants (as was the case with two February 1978 Pyramids I got hold of).

TwoInchQuad · « **Reply #73 on:** August 22, 2009, 09:29:44 PM »

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'223765\' date=\'Aug 22 2009, 10:06 AM\']My favorite set is of the Beatles on The Ed Sullivan Show. Not for the Beatles themselves, but for the fact that they're the entire episodes (plus commercials, thanks!). So we get to see the flow of the show as it originally happened, with acts that would never be included in a "best-of" collection but are still fascinating in their own way.[/quote]

They're very, very close to the "Program as Broadcast" versions, but not exact representations. A cigarette company was one of the original sponsors, so references to their product (and the commercials) got trimmed.

But the DVDs are indeed a treat!

-Kevin

gamed121683 · « **Reply #74 on:** August 22, 2009, 10:14:23 PM »

Back when TV Land was actually worth watching for more than a couple of seconds (gosh, I miss the Retromercials), they aired reruns of The Sonny & Cher Comedy Hour. If my memory serves, I believe they aired the hour episodes in full (musical acts and all). I wonder if the royalties were heck to pay for the folks at TVL?