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Author Topic: Golden Balls returns 11/2/09  (Read 5411 times)

Kniwt

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« on: October 30, 2009, 11:50:37 PM »
http://www.itv.com/TVGuide/default.html?tvgBegin=58
According to the ITV listings page, Golden Balls (love it or hate it) returns Monday on ITV1 at 5 p.m. UK time.  No word on whether these are actually new shows, but I believe that repeats are rare.

And while we're on the subject, U.S. conservative journal The American Spectator (found it in Teh Google, honest) has a short article about, of all things, Golden Balls, with a video of a £100k split or steal:
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/10/26/prisoners-dilemma

Brig Bother

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2009, 02:59:20 PM »
New episodes I believe, but it's just burning off stockpiled shows.

Also, the article is incorrect, you can't make a contract to share the winnings unless you go for the split method. That's written in the rules.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2009, 03:01:54 PM by Brig Bother »

TLEberle

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2009, 04:32:42 PM »
[quote name=\'Brig Bother\' post=\'229561\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 11:59 AM\']New episodes I believe, but it's just burning off stockpiled shows.

Also, the article is incorrect, you can't make a contract to share the winnings unless you go for the split method. That's written in the rules.[/quote]This brings up a question: are the players isolated before the show? Are they dismissed in turn? If not, how hard would it be to say "I'm going to steal: If you want to see a sniff of the money, split and I'll ring you tomorrow?"
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clemon79

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2009, 06:06:35 PM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'229562\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 01:32 PM\']"I'm going to steal: If you want to see a sniff of the money, split and I'll ring you tomorrow?"[/quote]
...and then the other guy decides if he wants to be extorted like that or not, and if he decides "fark that guy," he Steals too and Threaty McThreaterson goes home with bupkus.
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Darion Blackwood Daniel

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2009, 09:54:18 PM »
Yes, that is good to hear that another series is up.  At least after seeing all the shows they have on YouTube.  It finally got to them to bring it back.
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DoorNumberFour

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2009, 11:17:27 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'229567\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 06:06 PM\'][quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'229562\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 01:32 PM\']"I'm going to steal: If you want to see a sniff of the money, split and I'll ring you tomorrow?"[/quote]
...and then the other guy decides if he wants to be extorted like that or not, and if he decides "fark that guy," he Steals too and Threaty McThreaterson goes home with bupkus.
[/quote]
And this kind of situation is one of the reasons why I think the Prisoner's Dilemma is such an interesting game show device.
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clemon79

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2009, 11:41:13 PM »
[quote name=\'DoorNumberFour\' post=\'229581\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 08:17 PM\']And this kind of situation is one of the reasons why I think the Prisoner's Dilemma is such an interesting game show device.[/quote]
Which is funny, because that kind of situation precisely illustrates why it's awful.
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Brig Bother

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2009, 05:25:51 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'229562\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 08:32 PM\'][quote name=\'Brig Bother\' post=\'229561\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 11:59 AM\']New episodes I believe, but it's just burning off stockpiled shows.

Also, the article is incorrect, you can't make a contract to share the winnings unless you go for the split method. That's written in the rules.[/quote]This brings up a question: are the players isolated before the show? Are they dismissed in turn? If not, how hard would it be to say "I'm going to steal: If you want to see a sniff of the money, split and I'll ring you tomorrow?"
[/quote]

Yes, isolated from each other before, and seperated and taxied home pretty quickly after dismissal, from what I've been told.

From what I gather, it's basically Endemol covering legal bases in case someone offers exactly that sort of split and then reneges on it.

This is a bit more interesting interpretation of The Prisoner's Dilemma on television, pre-dating Goldenballs by almost ten years, an experimental late night Channel 4 show called Trust Me hosted by "Nasty" Nick Bateman, who was thrown out of our first series of Big Brother for cheating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCyab8gRQ6c
« Last Edit: November 01, 2009, 05:48:48 AM by Brig Bother »

Loogaroo

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2009, 09:18:25 AM »
[quote name=\'Darion Blackwood Daniel\' post=\'229576\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 08:54 PM\']Yes, that is good to hear that another series is up.  At least after seeing all the shows they have on YouTube.  It finally got to them to bring it back.[/quote]

Yes, it was all those views on YouTube that convinced ITV to air the remaining episodes that were already in the can.

I've always thought that the best way to defuse the whole "screwing over with no retribution" aspect of the prisoner's dilemma is to add a third option, one that guarantees a small portion of the pot to you regardless of what the other player chooses, and causes the other player to get nothing if he does attempt to hose you. Split-Split, Split-Steal and Steal-Steal have the same outcomes, but the third option (let's call it "Secure") awards the player 10% of the pot no matter what. If both pick Secure, they each get 10%; if it's Secure-Split, the Splitter gets half as normal, and if it's Secure-Steal, the Stealer leaves with nothing but bad karma.
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clemon79

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2009, 02:09:52 PM »
[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'229602\' date=\'Nov 1 2009, 06:18 AM\']I've always thought that the best way to defuse the whole "screwing over with no retribution" aspect of the prisoner's dilemma is to add a third option, one that guarantees a small portion of the pot to you regardless of what the other player chooses, and causes the other player to get nothing if he does attempt to hose you. Split-Split, Split-Steal and Steal-Steal have the same outcomes, but the third option (let's call it "Secure") awards the player 10% of the pot no matter what. If both pick Secure, they each get 10%; if it's Secure-Split, the Splitter gets half as normal, and if it's Secure-Steal, the Stealer leaves with nothing but bad karma.[/quote]
So exactly one of the three possible Steal scenarios gets the Stealer a thin dime, thus reducing the interest in Stealing a great deal. And committing to picking Steal is now condemning the other guy to winning at most 10%. That doesn't fix the problem.

The problem that still exists (and the problem the Prisoner's Dilemma will ALWAYS have by its very nature) is that the outcome that creates a Grand Prize winner is also the one that ends the show on a complete downer, 'cuz the other guy got farked for trying to be a good guy. And that the only ending that ISN'T a downer is a Split/Split, which nobody cares about. (And in your example, Secure/Split still ends with "Aw, you could have made more money if you'd trusted him!")

(And it's never the optimal play anyhow. If one guy says "I'm going to Steal!" the optimal response is to Secure. If he says "I'm going to Secure!", the optimal response is to Split, and he says "I'm going to Split!" the optimal response is to Steal. When the outcome that creates the happiest ending is also the poorest play strategically for both players, that's a fundamental problem.)

Some people, as we've seen above, apparently like watching someone get farked for trying to do the right thing, but I think those people are far and away in the minority.
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Neumms

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2009, 10:10:10 AM »
[quote name=\'Brig Bother\' post=\'229597\' date=\'Nov 1 2009, 05:25 AM\']This is a bit more interesting interpretation of The Prisoner's Dilemma on television, pre-dating Goldenballs by almost ten years, an experimental late night Channel 4 show called Trust Me hosted by "Nasty" Nick Bateman, who was thrown out of our first series of Big Brother for cheating: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCyab8gRQ6c[/quote]

How does one cheat at Big Brother?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 10:11:20 AM by Neumms »

clemon79

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2009, 11:30:55 AM »
[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'229669\' date=\'Nov 2 2009, 07:10 AM\']How does one cheat at Big Brother?[/quote]
In this case, it apparently had to do with this dude trying to manipulate houseguest votes for eviction. Might be that the UK show has tighter rules about that than we do.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 11:46:15 AM by clemon79 »
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Joe Mello

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2009, 02:52:51 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'229584\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 10:41 PM\'][quote name=\'DoorNumberFour\' post=\'229581\' date=\'Oct 31 2009, 08:17 PM\']And this kind of situation is one of the reasons why I think the Prisoner's Dilemma is such an interesting game show device.[/quote]
Which is funny, because that kind of situation precisely illustrates why it's awful[/quote]
I'm sure this has been brought up before, but is it really Prisoner's Dilemma?  I think there are enough deviations to say that it isn't, and that is probably the biggest flaw.
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clemon79

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« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2009, 03:27:46 PM »
[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'229689\' date=\'Nov 2 2009, 11:52 AM\']I think there are enough deviations to say that it isn't, and that is probably the biggest flaw.[/quote]
Please elaborate, as I fail to see what make it sufficiently different to say that, and as such I further don't see a) what changes you would make to make it a "true" Prisoner's Dilemma, and b) how that would improve the situation.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2009, 04:20:29 PM by clemon79 »
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BrandonFG

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Golden Balls returns 11/2/09
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2009, 03:36:48 PM »
[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'229689\' date=\'Nov 2 2009, 02:52 PM\']I'm sure this has been brought up before, but is it really Prisoner's Dilemma?[/quote]
More or less. On this and Friend or Foe, you can either a) screw your opponent and benefit, b) get screwed while your opponent benefits, or c) screw each other (not in the good way) and wind up with nothing.

They're both derivative of the Prisoner Dilemma the same way Wheel is derivative of Hangman. It's not 100% based on the concept, but it has enough elements to where you pretty much know its inspiration.
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