Author Topic: Survivor - I don't get it... (Read 7322 times)

NickS · « **Reply #15 on:** December 21, 2009, 09:34:38 PM »

Last time I checked, Survivor's motto is "Outwit, Outplay, Outlast." In my humble opinion, Natalie did only the last of the three. If "Out-ride the Coattails" was one of them, crown her ass.

What gets me about the Galu is that, as Chris so eloquently put, these "butthurt jackasses" got played. They got served, big time. What's worse is that you have someone like Erik who gets booted, loves the turnabout-is-fair-play seeing Russel orchestrate a major tribe comeback only to go holier-than-thou on him at the end.

Even Jeff called them out on it last night. The vote's the vote - there's no changing that, but from where the "best player of the game" was with Richard or Boston Rob, it's downspiraled into the Beautiful People last night, and the public reacted the way they did.

Loogaroo · « **Reply #16 on:** December 21, 2009, 10:14:18 PM »

Here's the thing, though: Survivor is a game about human nature. It is simple human nature to resent when someone eliminates you from a game with a million-dollar grand prize. Especially when the guy orchestrating your demise is chortling haughtily about how he's going to win the million and how you can't stop him. One of the great skills of Survivor is being able to eliminate players without them taking it out on you. Ethan in Africa pulled it off, Tom in Palau pulled it off, Todd in China pulled it off, Russell totally botched it.

NickS · « **Reply #17 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:00:36 PM »

[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'232701\' date=\'Dec 21 2009, 09:14 PM\']Here's the thing, though: Survivor is a game about human nature. It is simple human nature to resent when someone eliminates you from a game with a million-dollar grand prize. Especially when the guy orchestrating your demise is chortling haughtily about how he's going to win the million and how you can't stop him. One of the great skills of Survivor is being able to eliminate players without them taking it out on you. Ethan in Africa pulled it off, Tom in Palau pulled it off, Todd in China pulled it off, Russell totally botched it.[/quote]

Let me ask you this - do you respect how Russell played the game this season?

Joe Mello · « **Reply #18 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:09:16 PM »

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'232628\' date=\'Dec 21 2009, 09:37 AM\']Sometimes you invest a lot of time into these shows and have the outcome leaving a bad taste in your mouth. Last night for example – to me Russell was the best player. He found the idols without even having clues, he was a strong innovative player who made all the bold moves – yet the jury (in their infinite wisdom) didn’t even vote him to be the winner – which I don’t get.[/quote]
My information on this season of Survivor was all secondhand (I haven't really followed Survivor since Series 2), but I saw this coming a mile away. Even if you just watched the promos, you knew that it was basically the Russell show. You just had to think that even with all the masterminding, at least 1 member of the jury--people that Russell had helped cast off--would put 2 and 2 together and realize "Hey, this dude played us all for suckers" and try for revenge in the final.

Doesn't make it right or wrong, but this does not come as a shock.

Loogaroo · « **Reply #19 on:** December 21, 2009, 11:13:02 PM »

[quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'232705\' date=\'Dec 21 2009, 11:00 PM\']Let me ask you this - do you respect how Russell played the game this season?[/quote]

I think Russell lost the game on day one when he thought that it was a good strategic play to sabotage his camp. Maybe if he doesn't pour out everyone's canteens and burn someone's socks, the tribe doesn't get demoralized, they don't lose all but one Immunity Challenge, they go to the merge with numbers, the jury isn't stacked with Galu members and he scores an easy win. He was too busy trying to be a villain that he forgot that nobody likes villains, and certainly nobody wants to vote for a villain to get a million dollars if given a choice.

NickS · « **Reply #20 on:** December 22, 2009, 09:31:22 PM »

[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'232707\' date=\'Dec 21 2009, 10:13 PM\'][quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'232705\' date=\'Dec 21 2009, 11:00 PM\']Let me ask you this - do you respect how Russell played the game this season?[/quote]

I think Russell lost the game on day one when he thought that it was a good strategic play to sabotage his camp. Maybe if he doesn't pour out everyone's canteens and burn someone's socks, the tribe doesn't get demoralized, they don't lose all but one Immunity Challenge, they go to the merge with numbers, the jury isn't stacked with Galu members and he scores an easy win. He was too busy trying to be a villain that he forgot that nobody likes villains, and certainly nobody wants to vote for a villain to get a million dollars if given a choice.
[/quote]

I'll ask this again, and I think it's a fair question:

Do you respect how Russell played the game this season?

Speedy G · « **Reply #21 on:** December 22, 2009, 11:12:11 PM »

A couple of days removed, and exit interviews released, and it's sounding more and more like the edit bay smoked everyone. Russell pretty much had no chance to win at about day 30 because Galu would never have voted for him.

Bitter? Yes. But it's not a jury of peers, it's a jury of victims. Sure, Russell dragged Foa Foa across the finish line, and served as an effective Lightning Rod of Hate(tm), but he dragged them over dead Galu who had the opportunity to tell tales.

For a similar reaction, see the 2007 New England Patriots. They didn't win the title, but were easily the most dominant team of the season. Everyone will remember the steamrolling team's near-victory and stunning loss. Few will remember the distinctly average wild-card team that was in the right place at the right time.

BrandonFG · « **Reply #22 on:** December 23, 2009, 02:06:09 AM »

[quote name=\'Speedy G\' post=\'232799\' date=\'Dec 22 2009, 11:12 PM\']Few will remember the distinctly average wild-card team that was in the right place at the right time.[/quote]
Don't remind me.

/Playoffs: 13
//Dallas: 0

Loogaroo · « **Reply #23 on:** December 23, 2009, 03:01:44 AM »

[quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'232789\' date=\'Dec 22 2009, 10:31 PM\']I'll ask this again, and I think it's a fair question:

Do you respect how Russell played the game this season?[/quote]

I think I answered the question: No. He blew it at the start by trying to be the ultraheel. Doesn't matter how many immunity idols he found or how many different alliances he had going at that point - he was so enamored with being the Best Survivor Player To Ever Live that he shot himself in the foot. The show has proven that you can lie, manipulate, backstab and so on, and still win - as long as the people you're doing it to come away from it thinking, "Hey, he got me good" and not "That son of a b-tch, he'll get his when I'm on the jury". That's why Russell lost, and deserved to lose.

Joe Mello · « **Reply #24 on:** December 23, 2009, 12:23:25 PM »

[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'232813\' date=\'Dec 23 2009, 03:01 AM\']The show has proven that you can lie, manipulate, backstab and so on, and still win - as long as the people you're doing it to come away from it thinking, "Hey, he got me good"[/quote]
This seems like flawed logic to me, mainly because I can't imagine Survivor jurors thinking "Hey, he got me good," without adding "he'll get his when I'm on the jury."

clemon79 · « **Reply #25 on:** December 23, 2009, 01:17:18 PM »

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'232833\' date=\'Dec 23 2009, 09:23 AM\']This seems like flawed logic to me, mainly because I can't imagine Survivor jurors thinking "Hey, he got me good," without adding "he'll get his when I'm on the jury."[/quote]
Except that's what happens quite often on the show, and was the original point I was making to Tim. The butthurt douchebags are more likely to do exactly this. But there have absolutely been contestants who avoided that hypocrisy and said "He got me good...and if the tables were reversed, I would have done the same thing to him in a plug second. He gets my vote."

Joe Mello · « **Reply #26 on:** December 23, 2009, 02:51:39 PM »

[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'232840\' date=\'Dec 23 2009, 01:17 PM\']But there have absolutely been contestants who avoided that hypocrisy and said "He got me good...and if the tables were reversed, I would have done the same thing to him in a plug second. He gets my vote."[/quote]
I am pleasantly surprised. Kudos to the casting dept., then, for finding people who do realize that you aren't on the island to make friends or look pretty for the camera.

NickS · « **Reply #27 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:25:55 PM »

[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'232813\' date=\'Dec 23 2009, 02:01 AM\'][quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'232789\' date=\'Dec 22 2009, 10:31 PM\']I'll ask this again, and I think it's a fair question:

Do you respect how Russell played the game this season?[/quote]

I think I answered the question: No. He blew it at the start by trying to be the ultraheel. Doesn't matter how many immunity idols he found or how many different alliances he had going at that point - he was so enamored with being the Best Survivor Player To Ever Live that he shot himself in the foot. The show has proven that you can lie, manipulate, backstab and so on, and still win - as long as the people you're doing it to come away from it thinking, "Hey, he got me good" and not "That son of a b-tch, he'll get his when I'm on the jury". That's why Russell lost, and deserved to lose.
[/quote]

Actually, your first answer was a description why Russell lost in your opinion. Your second answer is the actual answer.

We'll agree to disagree on it, and that's fine - but whereas Russell was hated to me at first, I think he played the game pretty damn well. Did it cost him at the end ultimately? Maybe, but Chris L. hit it right on the head. The Way It Was Edited (tm), there's at least one if not two jurors that looked like they were in awe of how Russell blindsided people. Turned out they were butthurt douchebags (tm - Lemon).

Loogaroo · « **Reply #28 on:** December 23, 2009, 08:38:55 PM »

[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'232833\' date=\'Dec 23 2009, 12:23 PM\']This seems like flawed logic to me, mainly because I can't imagine Survivor jurors thinking "Hey, he got me good," without adding "he'll get his when I'm on the jury."[/quote]
Oh, there have been plenty, most recently Todd Herzog, the winner of the China season. The difference is, Todd built strong enough relationships with the jurors that when they voted, they didn't harbor any grudges and voted for him to win the million. Russell, on the other hand, was so full of himself that he carried himself around camp basking in his own greatness. The jurors picked up on it, and made it a point to wipe the smile off his face.

Were the jurors being sore losers? Maybe, maybe not. But that's why you don't sabotage and demoralize your team so they lose 5 of 6 immunity challenges and come into the merge down 7-4.

Joe Mello · « **Reply #29 on:** December 23, 2009, 10:27:49 PM »

[quote name=\'Loogaroo\' post=\'232878\' date=\'Dec 23 2009, 08:38 PM\']But that's why you don't sabotage and demoralize your team so they lose 5 of 6 immunity challenges and come into the merge down 7-4.[/quote]
1) I think you overestimate morale as opposed to a perhaps genuine lack of talent.
2) I'm with Tep. Friends of mine who watched said that Russell's machinations were unnoticed and that what viewers got was a heaping helping of dramatic irony.