lets pretend

[toetyper]

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'237018\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 09:32 PM\'][quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'237017\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 06:26 PM\'][quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'236977\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:38 AM\']He's also insinuating some things about the difficult of the bonus puzzles that I do not believe are based on fact.[/quote]two words

UTAH JAZZ

my problem was the catergory; proper name[/quote]I hate to make you bring out your Power Pad so soon, but what was improper about the name "Utah Jazz"?
[/quote]

utah jazz IS  NOT a proper name


its a NICKNAME for  a group of PEOPLE in an ORGANIZATION

any  of those  wouldve  been better

but still.;.those  letters.........ugh

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'237023\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 06:48 PM\']utah jazz IS  NOT a proper name[/quote]
You are so wrong here, it isn't even funny.

[tomobrien]

[quote name=\'toetyper\' post=\'237023\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 08:48 PM\']utah jazz IS  NOT a proper name

its a NICKNAME for  a group of PEOPLE in an ORGANIZATION[/quote]
How do you figure that "Utah Jazz" is not a proper name?  It's a collective proper noun that defines a specific thing (in this case, a team) and it appears to be the team's proper name, so I don't see how you can define it as a nickname.

[WarioBarker]

I'm having a harder time understanding what Daniel thinks is "unfair" about Wheel of Fortune, but it seems to revolve around his problem with certain very specific rules (losing the Million Dollar Wedge when you hit a BANKRUPT) or game elements.

My point was that, if a Prize wedge is picked up off the Wheel, it isn't returned to play in the following round should that contestant land on Bankrupt or not solve the puzzle. It robs the other contestants for a chance at those prizes.

He's also insinuating some things about the difficult of the bonus puzzles that I do not believe are based on fact.

Some of the Bonus Round puzzles have been rather hard -- ZYZZX ROAD, JURY BOX, words that will only get the "ES" at the end uncovered, puzzles that have an unnecessary "A" in front of them (like A PUZZLE PIECE), words that are randomly grouped together, and puzzles that are miscategorized. Some Bonus Round puzzles just aren't meant to be won, Matt.

From my prospective, it seems Daniel's issue with WOF is the fact it isn't this button down, ultra-serious trial of competition discipline. He seems to be rather bothered by all the glitz and glamor of the game.

Has the show gone a bit overboard with it? Yeah. But it's still a pretty enjoyable game.

I don't want it to be a serious game -- it doesn't work like that. I just want the show to have that same kind of feeling that it did in the Chuck/Susan days -- nice atmosphere, good budget for the era, returning champs...

That is not to say that I totally hate the show -- I'm just sad to see it so far from its origins.

/It's also amusing to see someone, who I am assuming is 20 judging by their handle, talking like a middle aged seasoned veteran producer, complete with a "copyrighted" company.

Taking the title of this discussion -- "Let's Pretend" -- to a logical conclusion.

[TLEberle]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 07:11 PM\']My point was that, if a prize wedge is picked up off the Wheel, it is not returned to play in the following round should that contestant A) land on Bankrupt or B) not solve the puzzle. It robs the other contestants for a chance at those prizes.[/quote] Then the other contestants should have spun the prize wedge first. That is not "unfair", that is "a rule you don't like."

Some of the Bonus Round puzzles have been rather hard -- ZYZZX ROAD, JURY BOX, words that will only get the "ES" at the end uncovered, puzzles that have an unnecessary "A" in front of them (like A PUZZLE PIECE), words that are randomly grouped together, and puzzles that are miscategorized. Some Bonus Round puzzles just aren't meant to be won, Matt.

The bonus round is being played for piles of cash and cars. It should not be a cakewalk. If you see THING/PERSON, and you see that leading single blank, you can mentally fill it in with a blank. Again, that isn't a case of fairness, that's just something you don't care for. I don't care for them either, but I don't complain about their fairness.

I submit that any bonus puzzle can be won with proper letter selection and good alphabet management. Just because some bonus round players choose to do the armpit fart instead of some critical thinking doesn't make it unfair, or make the puzzle not meant to be won.

21, actually. And that was just me taking the title of this discussion -- "Let's Pretend" -- to a logical conclusion. :-)

And you have much to learn yet.

[chad1m]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:11 PM\']It robs the other contestants for a chance at those prizes.[/quote]They were already robbed when the space was lifted off. Once it's up, it doesn't need to go back down.
[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:11 PM\']ZYZZX ROAD[/quote]...I do believe you are confusing the discarded puzzles thread with reality.
[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:11 PM\']puzzles that have an unnecessary "A" in front of them (like A PUZZLE PIECE)[/quote]If it is in a category like "thing", it should be insanely obvious what that "unnecessary" space is going to be.
[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:11 PM\']and puzzles that are miscategorized.[/quote] Like what? A jury box is a thing.
[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:11 PM\']nice atmosphere[/quote]Seems like a nice atmosphere to me. Generally, a place where everyone is smiling and money is being tossed around willy nilly has a good atmosphere.
[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:11 PM\']good budget for the era[/quote]You don't think a show with a $25,000 minimum bonus prize that contestants OFTEN exceed in the maingame has a good budget?
[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237030\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:11 PM\']That is not to say that I totally hate the show[/quote]Sure coulda fooled me.

[WarioBarker]

The bonus round is being played for piles of cash and cars. It should not be a cakewalk. If you see THING/PERSON, and you see that leading single blank, you can mentally fill it in with a blank. Again, that isn't a case of fairness, that's just something you don't care for. I don't care for them either, but I don't complain about their fairness.

I agree on that it shouldn't be a cakewalk, but some puzzles are pretty obscure. And yes, you can mentally fill in a missing "A" (or "I", such as in I GIVE UP), but contestants seem to pick the "A" because they hope it'll be somewhere else -- and sometimes, it isn't.

I submit that any bonus puzzle can be won with proper letter selection and good alphabet management. Just because some bonus round players choose to do the armpit fart instead of some critical thinking doesn't make it unfair, or make the puzzle not meant to be won.

Yes, any puzzle can be won if the contestants are savvy, but it seems that some contestants are not picked for their brains. I will say, however, that the latter is happening far less often.

And the "armpit fart" thing made me smile.

ZYZZX ROAD

...I do believe you are confusing the discarded puzzles thread with reality.

No, ZYZZX ROAD was actually a puzzle.

nice atmosphere

Seems like a nice atmosphere to me. Generally, a place where everyone is smiling and money is being tossed around willy nilly has a good atmosphere.

The atmosphere I meant was the living room-esque feel that the old 1970s-80s shows had. Commercialism has really eaten out a lot of the show's time, which cuts down on the interaction.

You don't think a show with a $25,000 minimum bonus prize that contestants OFTEN exceed in the maingame has a good budget?

Some cars in the Bonus Round have actually been worth less than $25,000. And the budget has been lowered -- why else would the Jackpot be moved to Round 1 and all four-digit spaces slapped next to a Bankrupt?

That is not to say that I totally hate the show

Sure coulda fooled me.

Some people hate The Price Is Right as it is now, but they still watch it. Again, I don't totally hate the show -- my "hatred" is very small compared to my love for it -- but I just don't like certain things it does. I can still watch the show without complaining, but I can't stop playing along.

And you have much to learn yet.

As do we all, Travis.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237040\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:58 PM\']No, ZYZZX ROAD was actually a puzzle.[/quote]
While I would certainly accept proof that I'm wrong, I find that impossible to believe.

Meanwhile, the fact that some bonus puzzles are harder than others is certainly true.  There was a suggestion in your earlier complaints -- deliberate or otherwise -- that Harry Friedman made his decision about puzzle difficulty based on how much money the contestant was playing for at that moment.

[rjaguar3]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'237051\' date=\'Mar 6 2010, 10:25 PM\']There was a suggestion in your earlier complaints -- deliberate or otherwise -- that Harry Friedman made his decision about puzzle difficulty based on how much money the contestant was playing for at that moment.[/quote]

This sounds like a job of regressing the probability of winning the bonus round against the amount the contestant is playing for.  Stand by...

[WarioBarker]

But here's the thing -- some $100,000 puzzles have been pretty easy, and some $25,000 puzzles have been hard. Typically, the amount landed on should correspond to the puzzle's difficulty (a $100,000 puzzle should be much harder than a $25,000 one).

Of course, there's the possibility that the Bonus Round puzzle would be the same regardless of what is landed on. In that case, the first sentence above can and does apply.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'237079\' date=\'Mar 7 2010, 01:10 PM\']But here's the thing -- some $100,000 puzzles have been pretty easy, and some $25,000 puzzles have been hard. Typically, the amount landed on should correspond to the puzzle's difficulty (a $100,000 puzzle should be much harder than a $25,000 one).

Of course, there's the possibility that the Bonus Round puzzle would be the same regardless of what is landed on. In that case, the first sentence above can and does apply.[/quote]
The fact is that the Bonus Puzzle IS the same regardless of what is landed on.  If you don't believe that's true, or you think it's unfair, I doubt there's going to be a way of talking you out of it, but you're wrong in both cases.

[WarioBarker]

Sorry, Matt.

[rjaguar3]

For Dan88's edification, here are the results:

From 9/14/09 to 3/5/10, the bonus round has been played 125 times and won 52 times.  The distribution is as follows:
$25,000: 15 solves/39 attempts
$30,000: 19/46
$35,000: 10/23
$40,000: 1/2
$45,000: 0/1
$50,000: 2/6
Cars: 5/8

Excluding the cars from consideration (as they have no fixed value, and if lost, no announced value in the recaps), we can compute the expected number of wins at each level by multiplying the probability of a bonus round win by the number of attempts at that prize level.

$25,000: 15 solves/16.22 expected
$30,000: 19 solves/19.14 expected
$35,000: 10 solves/9.57 expected
$40,000: 1 solve/0.83 expected
$45,000: 0 solves/0.42 expected
$50,000: 2 solves/2.5 expected

We therefore compute a chi-squared value of 0.66 on 6-1=5 degrees of freedom, which is not significant at the 5% level.  Therefore, we fail to reject the null hypothesis that the bonus round difficulty is correlated with the prize amount.

[TLEberle]

Math is hard, let's kill orcs.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'rjaguar3\' post=\'237097\' date=\'Mar 7 2010, 04:35 PM\']We therefore compute a chi-squared value of 0.66 on 6-1=5 degrees of freedom, which is not significant at the 5% level.  Therefore, we fail to reject the null hypothesis that the bonus round difficulty is correlated with the prize amount.[/quote]
If that was supposed to be deliberately obtuse for comedic effect, then I apologize for not getting the joke, but frankly, I'm a pretty smart guy, and I have no idea what you're saying.

"Fail to reject the null hypothesis"?  Really?