Another Pyramid Pilot

[WarioBarker]

What I meant was that Donnymid would never admit they often chose low-wattage celebrities...but decided to help with a sitcom plot where a really dense guy who plays a low-level role on an NBC soap opera appears as a celebrity on Donnymid.

Donnymid Season 2 combined near-impossible Winner's Circle categories, a high number of Pyramid series newcomers, a low number of established Pyramid series veterans, and stupidly-strict judging with its usual convoluted set of tournament-entry requirements and an inexplicable lack of returning champions to make a show that really must have wanted the budget for themselves rather than give it to contestants...

...and then they go and help make the aforementioned sitcom plot.

[tpirfan28]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'239331\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 06:54 PM\'][quote name=\'TeppanYaki\' post=\'239329\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 06:44 PM\'][quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'239328\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 05:38 PM\']Look at Season 2. Obviously, the show wouldn't admit that they pick celebrities for their star power (or D-List status) over their brains.[/quote]Ok - so you said that they admitted they picked clueless celebrities, and a day later you're saying they're not admitting it?  In the words of the immortal Mike Ditka, "Who ya crappin'?"[/quote]
What I meant was that the show would never admit they chose low-tier celebrities to save the budget, but that they essentially did through that episode of Friends.
[/quote]
Two events that have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

[J.R.]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'239328\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 05:38 PM\']As for that episode of Friends, Joey played a low-tier character on Days Of Our Lives and had a vastly-different train of thought than pretty much everybody else. Had that been in real-life, Donnymid would very likely have booked him for exactly the aforementioned reasons.[/quote]
I wonder if Dan88 doesn't know that it was a fictitious premise on a fake scripted comedy show?

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'239331\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 06:54 PM\']What I meant was that Donnymid would never admit they often chose low-wattage celebrities...but decided to help with a sitcom plot where a really dense guy who plays a low-level role on an NBC soap opera appears as a celebrity on Donnymid.

Donnymid Season 2 combined near-impossible Winner's Circle categories, a high number of Pyramid series newcomers, a low number of established Pyramid series veterans, and stupidly-strict judging with its usual convoluted set of tournament-entry requirements and an inexplicable lack of returning champions to make a show that really must have wanted the budget for themselves rather than give it to contestants...

...and then they go and help make the aforementioned sitcom plot.[/quote]
I'm not following you here. Even in the 1980s, Pyramid wasn't necessarily pulling in A-list names. However, the difference is, in 2002 (compared to 1982) there were a lot more networks and cable channels, which gave a wider pool to choose from.

The point about Joey Tribbiani is really irrelevant, being it was a sitcom.

[WarioBarker]

I'm not following you here. Even in the 1980s, Pyramid wasn't necessarily pulling in A-list names.

Big difference -- in the 1980s, the "not-so-A-list" celebrities more often than not did very well at the game. There had to be some sort of screening process then for celebrities, which Donnymid seemed to lack.

However, the difference is, in 2002 (compared to 1982) there were a lot more networks and cable channels, which gave a wider pool to choose from.

Good point.

The point about Joey Tribbiani is really irrelevant, being it was a sitcom.

My reasoning when I originally brought this up was the fact that sitcoms are usually based in reality somehow, so the "sitcom" fact that a certifiably-clueless person got on "sitcom" Donnymid could have a parallel -- a "reality" fact that certifiably-clueless people got on "reality" Donnymid.

[NickS]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'239336\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 06:26 PM\']Big difference -- in the 1980s, the "not-so-A-list" celebrities more often than not did very well at the game. There had to be some sort of screening process then for celebrities, which Donnymid seemed to lack.[/quote]

Yet you damn Donnymid for "near-impossible Winner's Circle categories, a high number of Pyramid series newcomers, a low number of established Pyramid series veterans, and stupidly-strict judging with its usual convoluted set of tournament-entry requirements."

[quote name=\'Dan88\']My reasoning when I originally brought this up was the fact that sitcoms are usually based in reality (pretty much every episode of Everybody Loves Raymond was based on something that happened to somebody on the show's staff, for example), so the "sitcom" fact that a certifiably-clueless person got on "sitcom" Donnymid could have a parallel -- a "reality" fact that certifiably-clueless people got on "reality" Donnymid.[/quote]

While you make a valid point about sitcoms usually based in reality, what's your source -- other than Wikipedia -- for that?  Also, while there's the possibility that your [airquotes]sitcom[/airquotes] fact could happen - going on to say that Donnymid made it too tough in that earlier post you made sorta makes this Joey argument moot, right?

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'239336\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 07:26 PM\']Big difference -- in the 1980s, the "not-so-A-list" celebrities more often than not did very well at the game. There had to be some sort of screening process then for celebrities, which Donnymid seemed to lack.[/quote]
Again, I'm not following, although I agree there was probably a screening for first-timers. However, some of the best Clark Pyramid players were B-list at best: Mary Cadorette, Stuart Pankin, Henry Polic II, etc. Most of the guests were supporting cast members on the popular shows of the day, but were hardly people you'd see on Johnny Carson's couch.

[chrisholland03]

Personal opinion time:

One of the elements in the great game show exodus of the late 80s/early 90s was due to shows booking 'B celebrities' who were good game players, but hadn't been on a memorable series in years (if ever).  26 weeks as a supporting actor on a syndicated sitcom that is carried in 40% of the markets a relevant celebrity does not make.  The whole premise behind a celebrity partner was interacting with someone with an aura.

[Otm Shank]

To back up the B-list assessment: I saw a clip with Michael J. Fox on a 1982 (--ish?) Pyramid, and I was surprised that someone of his caliber was a player. But, at the time, the Alex P. Keaton character on Family Ties had not evolved into the dominant character that it became. After that never to be seen.

Of course, there was Betty White during her Golden Girls tenure. But then again, Betty White is the exception rather than the rule.

[Vahan_Nisanian]

I think you can also add Earl Holliman and Patty Duke (who would drop "Astin" from her name about half-way through the 80's version run following her separation and divorce from John Astin) to the list of A-list celebrities on 80's Pyramid.

I wonder if Teresa Ganzel would also count as an "A-list" celebrity? I mean it's not like you couldn't see her on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson back in the 80's.

[WarioBarker]

Again, I'm not following, although I agree there was probably a screening for first-timers. However, some of the best Clark Pyramid players were B-list at best: Mary Cadorette, Stuart Pankin, Henry Polic II, etc. Most of the guests were supporting cast members on the popular shows of the day, but were hardly people you'd see on Johnny Carson's couch.

I really agree -- if you can play the game well and develop a friendly rapport with contestants, staff, and emcee, you'll be called back time and again even if you're a virtual unknown with 99% of the viewers. If you're really good, you'll be invited back for a Tournament Week.

I'll try to explain what I mean again -- contestants go through a screening process to pick those who the show wants. Much like that, I would think celebrity-based games would do something similar for celebrities -- regardless of name recognition, if you can play the game well you're going on-camera.

Donnymid, on the other hand, seemed to want those who could play the game "moderately" over those who had proven themselves great on Pyramid over the years (such as Betty White). The moderate celebs were usually C/D-listers.

Oddly, the series veterans seemed to be put up against "Countries Surrounding Pakistan", "Shows Developed By Fred Silverman", "Programs Gary Coleman Has Appeared On Through A Cameo", "What Air Would Say", "Things Found In Al Capone's Vault", "Smells Found In The Back Of A Bus", and "Things To Which You Might Lose A Key" much more frequently than the others.

/hopes the aforementioned categories weren't used

[TLEberle]

[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'239362\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 08:37 PM\']"Things Found In Al Capone's Vault"[/quote]A morose Geraldo Rivera.

/There is no Y in Eberle, thank you.

[Unrealtor]

I'm not convinced that the celebrities' skill - or lack thereof - was that big a factor, compared to the writing/judging. Considering that there hadn't been any new episodes of Pyramid produced in a dozen years and that at most a handful of players had appeared before (I actually can't think of anyone off the top of my head other than Betty White and Dick Clark,) I think you need to go back to the early days of the show to compare, not the era we see in reruns, when there was a stable of regular celebrities playing a few weeks a year between the $25K and $100K versions.

[TLEberle]

[quote name=\'Unrealtor\' post=\'239368\' date=\'Apr 12 2010, 09:08 PM\']I think you need to go back to the early days of the show to compare, not the era we see in reruns, when there was a stable of regular celebrities playing a few weeks a year between the $25K and $100K versions.[/quote]This is an outstanding point. With the show being dormant for ten years, you really can't expect that everyone will be experts straightaway. Now, if the show was still going and in year seven or thereabouts, maybe we can talk.

[Loogaroo]

On top of that, any shortcomings of the celebrity players were compounded by the format: less time per subject in the front game, so if you didn't get it straight off you were screwed; no returning champions, so players were never able to play with the celebs long enough to get on a wavelength; and the conditions to get in the tournament, which put enormous pressure on both sides in the Winner's Circle (to go along with the esoteric writing therein).