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Author Topic: Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements  (Read 35061 times)

MikeK

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #75 on: August 10, 2010, 11:21:04 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245682\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:02 AM\'][quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'245668\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 09:02 PM\']It gets annoying when you can tell they don't want the contestant to win -- and awesome when the contestant "Fries the Friedman".[/quote]They do what now?[/quote]
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TimK2003

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #76 on: August 10, 2010, 11:43:30 AM »
Quote
[quote name=\'fostergray82\' post=\'245638\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 01:07 PM\']Perhaps it's to offer contestants the chance to win more money, but I really don't need ACADEMY AWARD WINNING ACTRESS SANDRA BULLOCK when SANDRA BULLOCK will merely do.
A shorter puzzle will probably take longer because you have more people guessing wrong letters and letting the turn move along. A longer puzzle 1) allows more money to build up in the banks because 2) there are more letters on the board and 3) is shorter because you have fewer wrong guesses because of 2. If I'm a contestant, I want the longer puzzles because of the money and the chance to keep my turn that much longer, but as a viewer it borders on tedious as the contestants grope to fill in the adjectives that are paired with the actor or actress in the puzzle.[/quote]

I want to say that they want longer puzzles in the rounds so as to make the contestants look less stupid than they really are.  Giving puzzles which have nearly every friggin letter in the alphabet makes each contestant "look" smarter because there's less of a chance that they will call a letter which isn't there.  Contestants still have the shot to show they're as dumb as a box of rocks when they land on $5000 and ask for the single 'X' when there are still five hidden 'R's on the board.

I'd much rather see shorter puzzles that have the potential to give every player at least one chance to spin in each round, rather than have puzzles like "PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS" where every letter is there and whoever starts the round is likely to "run the board".
« Last Edit: August 10, 2010, 11:44:07 AM by TimK2003 »

Matt Ottinger

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #77 on: August 10, 2010, 12:30:17 PM »
[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'245684\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:43 AM\']I'd much rather see shorter puzzles that have the potential to give every player at least one chance to spin in each round, rather than have puzzles like "PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS" where every letter is there and whoever starts the round is likely to "run the board".[/quote]
But again we come back to the crux of the matter.  I'll grant you that shorter puzzles with fewer letters present a greater challenge to the contestants.  That, arguably, makes for a better game.  But do lots and lots of wrong answers and getting nowhere make for a more interesting show for a viewer to watch?  

Also, remember, we in this forum are the game players.  Our mileage definitely varies.

/I do like PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS though.  Both as a puzzle and as an activity.
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Ian Wallis

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #78 on: August 10, 2010, 01:09:19 PM »
I guess THE QUICK BROWN FOX JUMPED OVER THE LAZY DOGS wouldn't be a good puzzle either?  :)

/That's the sentence we did over and over in typing to get to know where all the letters were
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Jeremy Nelson

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #79 on: August 10, 2010, 04:45:25 PM »
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'245685\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:30 AM\'][quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'245684\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 11:43 AM\']I'd much rather see shorter puzzles that have the potential to give every player at least one chance to spin in each round, rather than have puzzles like "PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS" where every letter is there and whoever starts the round is likely to "run the board".[/quote]
But again we come back to the crux of the matter.  I'll grant you that shorter puzzles with fewer letters present a greater challenge to the contestants.  That, arguably, makes for a better game.  But do lots and lots of wrong answers and getting nowhere make for a more interesting show for a viewer to watch?  

Also, remember, we in this forum are the game players.  Our mileage definitely varies.

/I do like PACKING MY BOX WITH FIVE DOZEN LIQUOR JUGS though.  Both as a puzzle and as an activity.
[/quote]
As much as I'd like to say "Screw Americans, this isn't that hard", both sides have valid points. Here's my thing; I'd rather see the shorter puzzles, too. Gameplay moves along at a quick enough pace as to not lose the viewers, not to mention that the wheel doesn't take as long to stop as in the early days. Back when spinning had a lot more suspense to it, it could spin for a good 10 seconds on a normal strength spin. Now, it's quicker and allows more letters to get called. I say shorten the puzzles.
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wheelloon

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« Reply #80 on: August 10, 2010, 06:21:43 PM »
[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'245688\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 04:45 PM\']As much as I'd like to say "Screw Americans, this isn't that hard", both sides have valid points. Here's my thing; I'd rather see the shorter puzzles, too. Gameplay moves along at a quick enough pace as to not lose the viewers, not to mention that the wheel doesn't take as long to stop as in the early days. Back when spinning had a lot more suspense to it, it could spin for a good 10 seconds on a normal strength spin. Now, it's quicker and allows more letters to get called. I say shorten the puzzles.[/quote]

I'd agree, especially with the idea that it could... possibly... contribute to hopefully never having to go straight into Speed-up at the start of R4 AGAIN. This is, as long as they aren't specifically placed in R4 (it doesn't do much for your drama to have a 5k space on the wheel when 3rd place is probably behind by over $10k and there are only four or five legit consonants to call in a puzzle) and the short puzzles aren't along the lines of OXIDIZED, RAVE REVIEWS, or HO CHI MINH (which are legit puzzles of course, and ones the show actually used, but in practice, took too damn long to get through with the show's caliber of contestants).

But no, knowing the current production establishment... I'd fear that would be exactly what would happen...
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MSTieScott

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« Reply #81 on: August 10, 2010, 10:18:28 PM »
Keep in mind, too, that if the turn goes through all three players and back to the beginning without affecting the scores (nobody adds to their score and nobody loses money to a failed vowel purchase or a Bankrupt), they'll edit out the three non-advancement turns to fit in more gameplay. This theoretically could make shorter puzzles more attractive -- although there are issues with the extra editing and adjusting the timing of the show on the fly.

So since they're still tending toward the longer puzzles, I'd also guess that they prefer the higher stakes that longer puzzles can bring.

TLEberle

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #82 on: August 11, 2010, 01:19:38 AM »
[quote name=\'Dan88\' post=\'245668\' date=\'Aug 9 2010, 09:02 PM\']and awesome when the contestant "Fries the Friedman".[/quote]You are not One of Us. The more you do this sort of dumbassery, the less you're ever going to be One of Us. You may as well stop while you're behind. The Game Show Forum is not TV Tropes or Wikipedia, so please stop trying to turn it into them.

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'245685\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 09:30 AM\']Also, remember, we in this forum are the game players.  Our mileage definitely varies.[/quote]And that's the thing. If you want the best player to win, you take away the wheel, and the money and whoever solves the most puzzles is your winner. But that isn't very show-y at all.

The problem (that I have with the show) is that "winning on Wheel of Fortune" doesn't equate to "being the best player", and that you really can't have a best player with a game that relies that much on luck. Winning on Wheel is like winning a golf tournament: you were the best player that day. Assuming your players have a passing knowledge of spelling or American culture, anyone can win. One rotten spin and you're cooked. Or one spin and you're independently wealthy. Win a particular puzzle and you get a huge boost to your score, as much as you might get for taking a big risk or for solving at just the right time.

But even as a youngster, I didn't watch to see the best player showered with cash and prizes and adoration from millions. I liked playing along and feeling smug that I was the first in the family to have the solution. The fact that there was a game going on was almost secondary.
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Jeremy Nelson

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #83 on: August 11, 2010, 01:48:54 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245704\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 12:19 AM\']Winning on Wheel is like winning a golf tournament: you were the best player that day.[/quote]
Very well put, sir. I will say this though- the right player can not only control the game (as best you can when playing Hangman), but control the wheel as well. I remember playing the old WoF games on the NES; on the hardest difficulty, you might as well go grab a drink when the computer played; they were pretty close to invincible. So when my turn came about, I'd adjust my spinning strength so that I'd hit that 14/15 space area where there were no penalty spaces every time.

Same applies to Wheel; correct me if I'm wrong here. If you know the wheel goes 13 spaces at your normal spinning strength, and that a Bankrupt or Lose A Turn is 12-14 spaces near, you either spin daintily or with roid rage. Same case if Top Dollar is in that area; you wait until it's within your spinning range to call for your 4 Ts.
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J.R.

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« Reply #84 on: August 11, 2010, 01:55:23 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'245704\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 12:19 AM\']You are not One of Us. The more you do this sort of dumbassery, the less you're ever going to be One of Us. You may as well stop while you're behind. The Game Show Forum is not TV Tropes or Wikipedia, so please stop trying to turn it into them.[/quote]
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Matt Miller

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« Reply #85 on: August 11, 2010, 04:14:06 AM »
[quote name=\'TLEberle @ Aug 11 2010 12:19 AM\']The problem (that I have with the show) is that "winning on Wheel of Fortune" doesn't equate to "being the best player"[/quote] Wheel is certainly not alone in that regard, A smart player in TJW could get 95% of their questions right and their opponent could still win the game because they managed to spin 3 jokers and nail an easy question from whatever category they picked. (or simply just spun the 3 joker's in the early shows) There are other shows too like Press Your Luck (although that's more deliberately slanted toward luck than skill obviously) and High Rollers (again smart player answers 95% of their questions correctly, but their not-as-smart opponent answers correctly once, passes the dice to the smart player and (s)he rolls a bad roll.
Matt

wdm1219inpenna

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« Reply #86 on: August 11, 2010, 04:54:59 AM »
[quote name=\'MSTieScott\' post=\'245695\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 10:18 PM\']Keep in mind, too, that if the turn goes through all three players and back to the beginning without affecting the scores (nobody adds to their score and nobody loses money to a failed vowel purchase or a Bankrupt), they'll edit out the three non-advancement turns to fit in more gameplay. This theoretically could make shorter puzzles more attractive -- although there are issues with the extra editing and adjusting the timing of the show on the fly.

So since they're still tending toward the longer puzzles, I'd also guess that they prefer the higher stakes that longer puzzles can bring.[/quote]


The only problem with this theory, and I understand what you're saying I think...Suppose all 3 players spin a dollar amount, all 3 call consonants that are not in the puzzle?  If that gets edited out, we, the home viewer, will never know what 3 consonants were already called, yet that event happening would, in effect, not affect the scores at all.  If on the other hand all 3 hit Lose A Turn, or all 3 hit Bankrupt in succession, I could see them editing that out perhaps.

And yes, it's true, the later round can, and often does, give you a winner.  One person could solve all 3 toss-ups, and all 3 of the first 3 round puzzles, and one lucky $6,000 spin and a few consonants could win the game for someone else who had solved 0 puzzles up until that moment.  Family Feud, the first few rounds really in essence mean next to nothing.  Jeopardy!  Someone could answer twice as many clues, but one lucky selection of a Daily Double, or one come from behind victory in Final Jeopardy, in essence making just 1 clue really all that matters decide the game, all can make the rest of the game itself seem almost pointless, kind of like the $100 Super Password puzzle.  The winner of that first round got $100, which is better than Turtle Wax, but as far as it deciding the game's outcome, it never did.  In essence, Super Password was the best 2 out of 3 puzzles, with the first puzzle being more or less a "warm up".  So I guess it all depends on how you look at the semantics (sp?) of the game.  Most every game played, on tv, or in parlors, have some elements of luck to them.  And while we might bemoan the fact that one person solving 6 puzzles loses to a lucky stiff who just happened to get 6 T's in a speed up puzzle where the wheel landed on the $5,000 space, the other side of this coin is, all 3 players play with the same wheel, by the same rules, so if it can happen to one, it can happen to one of the other 2 just as easily.  That being said, I always preferred games of knowledge, skill & strategy, perhaps with a little luck thrown in.  Tic Tac Dough's main game (before they had all those dopey red boxes polluting the board) & Blockbusters are 2 shining examples that spring to mind.

parliboy

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Wheel of Fortune gameplay elements
« Reply #87 on: August 11, 2010, 05:32:14 AM »
All the back and forth of the past couple of pages seem to boil down to a main point: in the genre of "game show", where do we strike the balance between "game" and "show"?

Quite a few of us fall in the camp of believing that the game has taken too much of a backseat to the show here.  Unfortunately, there is not a lot to be done about that; after all, we are not their target audience.
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Mr. Armadillo

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« Reply #88 on: August 11, 2010, 09:21:24 AM »
[quote name=\'wheelloon\' post=\'245690\' date=\'Aug 10 2010, 05:21 PM\']OXIDIZED, RAVE REVIEWS, or HO CHI MINH (which are legit puzzles of course, and ones the show actually used, but in practice, took too damn long to get through with the show's caliber of contestants).[/quote]

It doesn't really matter what caliber of contestants you've got if you're trying to get them to guess OXIDIZED...there's no way you're going to get more than three letters revealed before the only consonants left are J, Q, Z, and X.  I have to dispute the claim that that puzzle is 'legitimate', whatever that means.

dale_grass

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« Reply #89 on: August 11, 2010, 09:42:06 AM »
[quote name=\'wdm1219inpenna\' post=\'245708\' date=\'Aug 11 2010, 03:54 AM\']If on the other hand all 3 hit Lose A Turn, or all 3 hit Bankrupt in succession, I could see them editing that out perhaps.[/quote]
I agree on three Lose a Turn spins in succession.

As for Bankrupts, the producers might get calls regarding all scores being zeroed from one shot to the next.