Jeopardy- Art vs. Alex

[JasonA1]

I know this topic has been covered in drips and drabs over the years, but in reading Harry Eisenberg's "Inside Jeopardy" (a discussion topic itself) and searching the board to corroborate some things, my curiosity was piqued: Is there anybody here who thinks the Fleming J! is superior to the current run? If not, are there some things you think the older show did right that the Trebek show does not? One of Harry's suppositions was management's desire to be more like "the old Jeopardy" - me being culture biased to the current show, I can't imagine why.

And on a related note, can any members who watched first-run in the 60s and 70s share their experience of watching in the 80s for the first time? If fonts can rile people up, then surely a vast wall of monitors and the comparatively colder set might have been a culture shock in 1984.

-Jason

[DrBear]

Actually, the most shocking thing the first I saw the Trebek version was using the "think music" as the theme, although it made sense quickly and has become a trademark. Nobody hums the theme from Fleming's version when there's a decision being made.

Actually, it is close enough to the old one that the set changes, rules changes, etc., seem more evolutionary than revolutionary. The main difference is the questions seeming softer - maybe its just that, being older, I've known more...

[trainman]

[quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'246563\' date=\'Aug 30 2010, 05:24 PM\']And on a related note, can any members who watched first-run in the 60s and 70s share their experience of watching in the 80s for the first time?[/quote]

Not directly, but I can remember my mother complaining that 1) the contestants were standing instead of sitting, and 2) the contestants didn't have cups of water in front of them.

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'246567\' date=\'Aug 30 2010, 07:48 PM\']Actually, it is close enough to the old one that the set changes, rules changes, etc., seem more evolutionary than revolutionary. The main difference is the questions seeming softer - maybe its just that, being older, I've known more...[/quote]
I only have a couple of the Fleming shows on tape/DVD, one being the 3/2/79 Fleming finale (as opposed to the 1/3/75 one).  Even though I've now seen it a few times, I still find it very hard to come up with the correct question for many of those categories.

While granted I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, I'm not the dullest either.  I think the clues have gotten a little softer, or maybe I'm just used to the writing style (and the fact that you might find a few hints along the way).

[Jeremy Nelson]

[quote name=\'SRIV94\' post=\'246569\' date=\'Aug 30 2010, 08:08 PM\']I think the clues have gotten a little softer, or maybe I'm just used to the writing style (and the fact that you might find a few hints along the way).[/quote]

I think the show has done a good job of making itself more accessible to the common viewer- the Jeopardy round is pretty manageable considering the amount of material in each of the clues. I haven't seen enough Fleming episodes to really make a proper statement, but it seems Jeopardy was a much more cerebral show back in the day (and thus, may have scared off the common viewer. Someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'd have to imagine that pop culture clues and "quotation mark" clues came up a lot less often then

I remember reading somewhere that Art Fleming thought the new Jeopardy! (1984) was too glitzy/flashy, and that he wasn't too keen on players not being able to keep their winnings.

[Craig Karlberg]

When I first saw the current version of J! back in 1984, I was a bit nervous & didn't know what to expect from Alex Trebek.  A few weeks later, it started to grow on me & is now one of my favorittes(outside of WoF).  Of course, the clues are a bit "easier" to deal with now.  J! certainly evolved itself nicely while keeping its core format intact.  Is it possible for J! to make it to 50 years overall?  Only time will tell.

I haven't seen enough Flemming episodes to make a full comparison, but Trebek's version seems quicker in pace than its predecessor.

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'Jeremy Nelson\' post=\'246576\' date=\'Aug 30 2010, 11:07 PM\']I haven't seen enough Fleming episodes to really make a proper statement, but it seems Jeopardy was a much more cerebral show back in the day (and thus, may have scared off the common viewer. Someone correct me if I'm wrong). I'd have to imagine that pop culture clues and "quotation mark" clues came up a lot less often then[/quote]
That's a fair statement, although considering the original J! ran a little over 10 years, I don't think the common viewer was "scared off."  I don't think a show could run that amount of time without its fair share of common viewers.

The 1978 revival was a different story--by the time it premiered, the 12N ET slot had become the death slot.  Moving it there at the beginning of 1979 didn't help its chances to survive, even though you had WoF and P+ as its bookends.

[Mr. Armadillo]

[quote name=\'trainman\' post=\'246568\' date=\'Aug 30 2010, 08:03 PM\'][quote name=\'JasonA1\' post=\'246563\' date=\'Aug 30 2010, 05:24 PM\']And on a related note, can any members who watched first-run in the 60s and 70s share their experience of watching in the 80s for the first time?[/quote]

Not directly, but I can remember my mother complaining that 1) the contestants were standing instead of sitting[/quote]
This argument's been going on for that long?

[irwinsjournal.com]

[quote name=\'DrBear\' post=\'246567\' date=\'Aug 30 2010, 08:48 PM\']Actually, it is close enough to the old one that the set changes, rules changes, etc., seem more evolutionary than revolutionary. The main difference is the questions seeming softer - maybe its just that, being older, I've known more...[/quote]

My thoughts as well-- the Fleming version did seem more cerebral, but what didn't when you're a kid?  (Answer: "Bowling for Dollars.")  I don't think there was nearly as much variety in the categories but like many of us, I don't remember enough to be sure about this.  Certainly the pop culture references seem "up big" (to make a pop culture reference to The McLaughlin Group, although I don't think that will make for a J! answer).

While the J! money in the Fleming version was not bad for the time, it seems proportionally more now, even accounting for inflation.  To me that makes the Fleming J! somewhat more about the "prestige", not unlike "Countdown", "Letters and Numbers" and "Des Chiffres et Des Lettres".

[Neumms]

[quote name=\'irwinsjournal.com\' post=\'246599\' date=\'Aug 31 2010, 01:00 PM\']While the J! money in the Fleming version was not bad for the time, it seems proportionally more now, even accounting for inflation.  To me that makes the Fleming J! somewhat more about the "prestige", not unlike "Countdown", "Letters and Numbers" and "Des Chiffres et Des Lettres".[/quote]

When they introduced Fleming's version, the quiz scandals were still fresh. Nobody gave away much money, and not because they didn't have it. When the author said they were getting back to the original, he was probably contrasting it with the Fleming re-do with the bonus round and the elimination of the third place player for Double Jeopardy. That version had no Final Jeopardy, either, correct?

When Alex's version premiered, I thought it was awesome they used the original think music. The worse change they've made is replacing that with something even less modern and without the charm. If they were going to update it, geez, they should have made it sound fresh, not like an old person's "beautiful music" station.

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'246603\' date=\'Aug 31 2010, 02:31 PM\']If they were going to update it, geez, they should have made it sound fresh, not like an old person's "beautiful music" station.[/quote]
I thought the 1997 and '01 themes were great themes, and very contemporary for a cerebral game show. The '08 theme is okay, but lacks a lot of energy. However, I do give the composer credit for still putting together a theme a) with a discernible melody, and b) longer than :30.

[Ian Wallis]

Re. the theme songs, I know the Trebek theme is "iconic", but it's never been one of my favorites.  I don't dislike it, but I wouldn't go out of my way to hear it.  Say what you will about the '78-79 version, but the theme was awsome!

As for what I thought when the '84 version premiered - I was excited, because I watched the original show whenever I could (holidays from school, etc.) and I was intrigued by the big money.  Before the premiere I actually thought the money would be half of what it was, because the commercials promoting the return of the show used clips from the pilot.

[alfonzos]

If you don't believe that the original version was harder all you have to do is examine any Milton Bradley version of the game. The home game used material taken directly from the series.

The original series is superior to the current series. Flemming was an avuncular and a joy to watch. I prefered them to be called "answers" rather "clues." The Clue Crew really slows the pace of gameplay. However, a top prize of $100 and the cheesy set just won't do in the twenty-first century. I miss the set with the transparent sign and sliding doors.

[gameshowcrazy]

I'm sure someone here feels like taking the time to track it down and back it up with stats, but I would think the best way to judge if the show has become easier is not to judge how well we have played along since we were kids, but to see how the average scores of the contestants going into the final has changed (taking into consideration the doubling of dollars).

From my own records I know that in the past 5 seasons, the average of the contestants after two rounds has been from 05-06 toward 09-10:  11324, 11579, 11299, 11330, and 11625.

Pretty steady numbers these last few years, but anyone want to find out about seasons 3-7?  I am giving those years as the first two years the show had to find it's way/style; and this information should give us the answer to that question.

[DrBear]

That doesn't show much. The numbers have been consistent, but if both the contestants and answers were dumbing down at the same rate, they would. Now, if they were using smarter contestants and dumber questions, or vice versa, you'd see some serious changes.