Unusual TV Show Lengths

[trainman]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'252874\' date=\'Dec 20 2010, 01:08 PM\']I had always wondered where and why this started.  I first noticed it in a Denver TVGuide from 1983.  I wondered why the late newscasts ran 35 min - on each station.  Nobody else that I know of was doing it at that time.  Over the years, it spread around and now everybody's doing it.[/quote]

Mountain time zone stations could do that in 1983 because they were doing their own recording of the Eastern/Central network feeds and then playing them back an hour later (or, in that case, 65 minutes later).

On a network-wide basis, NBC officially bumped "The Tonight Show" back by 5 minutes in the fall of 1991, ABC moved "Nightline" back at some point in 1993, and CBS gave their affiliates the extra 5 minutes when "Late Show with David Letterman" premiered.

I actually remember taking a stopwatch to the 11:00 news on WFLA in Tampa when the "Tonight Show" start time changed, and if I recall correctly, Monday's 35-minute news time slot had 2 minutes more commercial time than Friday's 30-minute news.  (Most noticeably, they put a commercial break between the end of the news and the start of "The Tonight Show," rather than going straight from one to the other, as they'd done previously.)

[Fedya]

As for the reason why it started, didn't it have to do with the networks wanting their own individual listing in the TV guide (generic, not just the magazine) back in the days when they all had lists instead of grids?  Rather than having Channels 6, 10, 13, and 17 all beginning their late shows at 11:30 PM, three of them would be in a listing at 11:30, and one would get its own listing at 11:35, in theory making it stand out more.

I recall reading that somewhere, although I'm sure a bunch of people will point out how horribly wrong this is.  And of course now that every listings service is grid-based, starting at a different time won't do anything to make your program stand out.  Never mind, of course, that all that late shows now begin at 11:35.  :-)

(OT: Which online TV guide do you folks use?  I liked Titan TV, except that they keep insisting on adding random channels to my favorites lineup, and there's no convenient way to get rid of them; instead you have to go to the clunky all channels interface.)

[Ian Wallis]

All these ideas may sound good on paper, but they really screw up syndication.

What was done to the super-sized Friends episodes in syndication?  I suppose if the timing was right, they could syndicate them as two-part episodes, since there are more commercials in syndication anyway.

With the ever increasing commercial time, would it ever be feasable to stop with the traditional :00 and :30 start times?  In places like England they've been doing this for decades - sometimes shows will start at 8:05, or 9:20.  Maybe since things have changed, things should change.  I think we're getting to a time where it's no longer possible to fit a 30-minute show into a 30-minute time slot and still have any substance.

[DrBear]

ABC tried it in 1969 or 1970, with two 45-minute shows target at the young audience: "Music Scene" and "The Now People." Both flopped.

[Ian Wallis]

ABC tried it in 1969 or 1970, with two 45-minute shows target at the young audience: "Music Scene" and "The Now People." Both flopped.

Point taken.  However, that was a long time ago and things have changed since then.

[irwinsjournal.com]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'252863\' date=\'Dec 20 2010, 12:45 PM\']I really wonder if they might be forced into shows with unusual lengths here in North America.  When you take an average half-hour syndicated show, it runs roughly 20 minutes with close to 10 minutes commercials.  I can't believe how bad it's gotten over the years.  If this keeps up, in a few years it might be more like 15-15.  Would it still be feasable to do half-hour shows if this were to occur?  Talk about lack of content.[/quote]


And how much of this "content" is really content anyway?  Previews of what's going to happen after the break and rehashes of what happened before the break are not exactly meaningful.  Game shows aren't the worst offenders at this I admit, that "honor" goes to, in a multi-way tie, any number of shows on History, Discovery, A&E, et al, for example, Mythbusters.

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'252929\' date=\'Dec 21 2010, 08:53 AM\']

All these ideas may sound good on paper, but they really screw up syndication.

What was done to the super-sized Friends episodes in syndication?  I suppose if the timing was right, they could syndicate them as two-part episodes, since there are more commercials in syndication anyway.
[/quote]
IIRC, they were still trimmed down to 22-minute episodes. I'm thinking a 40-minute episode is about 27-28 mins. of content, so some jokes might still get lost in the shuffle, just to get down to 22. Seems like it would be a labor similar to what TV Land does to fit 70s sitcoms (25 or so minutes) to the same length.

The other issue I see...what would it do for first-run syndication i.e. game and talk shows, and the local news? All in all, I still like the primetime idea, but it would have to be done across the board to fit daytime schedules as well...

How long did 45-minute soaps last in the 70s?

[Ian Wallis]

Seems like it would be a labor similar to what TV Land does to fit 70s sitcoms (25 or so minutes) to the same length.

It's getting harder and harder to rerun those old '60s and '70s shows now isn't it, with the amount that has to be chopped out of them.

How long did 45-minute soaps last in the 70s?

IIRC, I believe they lasted a couple of years.  Thinking back, it's surprising ABC tried it back then.  Why not just expand one to 60 min, then the other somewhere down the line?

Maybe we should be thankful though...it cost us the great Break the Bank, but if they'd gone for 60-minute versions back then instead of 45, it would be meant another game show would have gone bye-bye way too soon.

[dale_grass]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'252963\' date=\'Dec 21 2010, 03:02 PM\']

Seems like it would be a labor similar to what TV Land does to fit 70s sitcoms (25 or so minutes) to the same length.

It's getting harder and harder to rerun those old '60s and '70s shows now isn't it, with the amount that has to be chopped out of them.

[/quote]
I love The Golden Girls, but it's increasingly difficult to watch in syndication due to the chopping.  It's not that I'm aware there's material missing, it's the obviousness with which they pick up a scene 20 seconds into it.

[Fedya]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'252963\' date=\'Dec 21 2010, 03:02 PM\']

Seems like it would be a labor similar to what TV Land does to fit 70s sitcoms (25 or so minutes) to the same length.

It's getting harder and harder to rerun those old '60s and '70s shows now isn't it, with the amount that has to be chopped out of them.[/quote]
You'd think cable channels could just run them as is with longer commercial breaks in a 35 or 40-minute slot, and not have shows begin at the half hour.  After all, they don't have to have programming time out for the local news or network prime time lineup.  I think somebody said earlier in the thread that it would also mean having to pay rights fees for fewer programs, so it ought to be cheaper for them.

[TimK2003]

[quote name=\'mmb5\' post=\'252877\' date=\'Dec 20 2010, 02:52 PM\']All these ideas may sound good on paper, but they really screw up syndication.[/quote]


True, it would screw up syndication, but on the flip side, it's a boon to those responsible for putting the shows into a DVD season "x" collection or those online internet sites, like Hulu, that run the uncut version of TV episodes.  Being able to promote TV Shows of the past by promoting them as "Original, Uncut" episodes definitely works in either's favor.

[trainman]

[quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'252972\' date=\'Dec 21 2010, 02:18 PM\']You'd think cable channels could just run them as is with longer commercial breaks in a 35 or 40-minute slot, and not have shows begin at the half hour.[/quote]

BBC America used to do this (e.g., they'd have the BBC's half-hour sitcoms in a 40-minute slot), but I don't see that anymore on a quick check of their schedule.

[Fedya]

How many BBC shows is BBC America airing these days?  It seems every time I look at the box guide as though the prime time line-up leads off with ST:TNG.

[Unrealtor]

[quote name=\'trainman\' post=\'253120\' date=\'Dec 22 2010, 09:46 PM\'][quote name=\'Fedya\' post=\'252972\' date=\'Dec 21 2010, 02:18 PM\']You'd think cable channels could just run them as is with longer commercial breaks in a 35 or 40-minute slot, and not have shows begin at the half hour.[/quote]

BBC America used to do this (e.g., they'd have the BBC's half-hour sitcoms in a 40-minute slot), but I don't see that anymore on a quick check of their schedule.
[/quote]

This year's Doctor Who Christmas Special is airing in an 80-minute slot. It's the first time I've seen them schedule anything other than an even hour/half-hour for a while.