Author Topic: Trying to find a clip... (Read 4201 times)

Twentington · « **on:** January 23, 2011, 03:53:50 PM »

A while back, I remember seeing a clip from a mid-1990s Wheel episode with a particularly esoteric Clue puzzle — the puzzle answer had something to do with a butler, the correct response was "Crumbs or ashes" and both Pat and the contestant were baffled as to what the puzzle even meant. I've looked all over but can't find this clip. Does anyone remember this puzzle, or know where it might be hiding?

parliboy · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2011, 02:51:35 PM »

[quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255407\' date=\'Jan 23 2011, 02:53 PM\']A while back, I remember seeing a clip from a mid-1990s Wheel episode with a particularly esoteric Clue puzzle — the puzzle answer had something to do with a butler, the correct response was "Crumbs or ashes" and both Pat and the contestant were baffled as to what the puzzle even meant. I've looked all over but can't find this clip. Does anyone remember this puzzle, or know where it might be hiding?[/quote]

Google sez: SILENT BUTLER'S TARGETS

A silent butler is a simple receptacle with a hinged lid. Can be used with a small broom for sweeping up messes.

Kevin Prather · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2011, 04:47:14 PM »

[quote name=\'parliboy\' post=\'255497\' date=\'Jan 24 2011, 11:51 AM\'][quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255407\' date=\'Jan 23 2011, 02:53 PM\']A while back, I remember seeing a clip from a mid-1990s Wheel episode with a particularly esoteric Clue puzzle — the puzzle answer had something to do with a butler, the correct response was "Crumbs or ashes" and both Pat and the contestant were baffled as to what the puzzle even meant. I've looked all over but can't find this clip. Does anyone remember this puzzle, or know where it might be hiding?[/quote]

Google sez: SILENT BUTLER'S TARGETS

A silent butler is a simple receptacle with a hinged lid. Can be used with a small broom for sweeping up messes.
[/quote]
A silent butler can also refer to the trope of a butler who walks around dumbly with a feather duster.

ETA: The highlight of the moment in question was one player's valiant guess of "The maid."

Twentington · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2011, 09:37:50 PM »

The Clue puzzles used to be pretty tough in comparison to what they were in the early 2000s (I don't think we'd have seen something like THE SOUL OF WIT in the 2000s), but damn. If not even the host knows what you're talking about, you know you've picked a doozy.

Honestly, I think we can put this one in the "budget saver" category. And really, I'd put it at a pretty close second behind the infamous FJ! about Liederkranz cheese, which I still hold as the gold standard of "most ridiculously unfair game show answer ever".

TLEberle · « **Reply #4 on:** January 25, 2011, 02:47:24 PM »

[quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255511\' date=\'Jan 24 2011, 06:37 PM\']Honestly, I think we can put this one in the "budget saver" category. And really, I'd put it at a pretty close second behind the infamous FJ! about Liederkranz cheese, which I still hold as the gold standard of "most ridiculously unfair game show answer ever".[/quote]You mean under the category of "game show answer I didn't know."

Twentington · « **Reply #5 on:** January 25, 2011, 03:26:17 PM »

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'255551\' date=\'Jan 25 2011, 02:47 PM\'][quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255511\' date=\'Jan 24 2011, 06:37 PM\']Honestly, I think we can put this one in the "budget saver" category. And really, I'd put it at a pretty close second behind the infamous FJ! about Liederkranz cheese, which I still hold as the gold standard of "most ridiculously unfair game show answer ever".[/quote]You mean under the category of "game show answer I didn't know."
[/quote]

No, I mean under "Most ridiculously unfair game show answer ever, in my personal opinion."

I admit I have a fairly narrow knowledge range, and probably don't have much justification to call out any answer as particularly tough. But this poll is rather telling in regards to Liederkranz.

Kevin Prather · « **Reply #6 on:** January 25, 2011, 05:05:10 PM »

[quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255561\' date=\'Jan 25 2011, 12:26 PM\']I admit I have a fairly narrow knowledge range, and probably don't have much justification to call out any answer as particularly tough. But...[/quote]
You can stop right there.

clemon79 · « **Reply #7 on:** January 25, 2011, 05:10:02 PM »

[quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255561\' date=\'Jan 25 2011, 12:26 PM\']in my personal opinion."[/quote]
At least he didn't claim it was "humble."

TLEberle · « **Reply #8 on:** January 25, 2011, 09:16:28 PM »

[quote name=\'Kevin Prather\' post=\'255571\' date=\'Jan 25 2011, 02:05 PM\']You can stop right there.[/quote]"Oh, sorry, the correct answer was 'Prosecution rests, your honor.' You don't win the grand prize, but you'll take home some lovely parting gifts. Did you have a good time?"

J.R. · « **Reply #9 on:** January 25, 2011, 11:44:13 PM »

[quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255561\' date=\'Jan 25 2011, 02:26 PM\']I admit I have a fairly narrow knowledge range, and probably don't have much justification to call out any answer as particularly tough. But this poll is rather telling in regards to Liederkranz.[/quote]
Do you always have to beat yourself up every time someone proves you wrong? Is this some attempt at guilting people?

Dbacksfan12 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 26, 2011, 08:30:09 AM »

[quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255561\' date=\'Jan 25 2011, 03:26 PM\']But this poll is rather telling in regards to Liederkranz.[/quote]While I'll be the first to say I would'nt have known the answer either, 57 people in a country of 307,000,000 really isn't a very good sample size.

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #11 on:** January 26, 2011, 08:48:02 AM »

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'255609\' date=\'Jan 26 2011, 08:30 AM\'][quote name=\'Twentington\' post=\'255561\' date=\'Jan 25 2011, 03:26 PM\']But this poll is rather telling in regards to Liederkranz.[/quote]While I'll be the first to say I would'nt have known the answer either, 57 people in a country of 307,000,000 really isn't a very good sample size.[/quote]
To be fair (though it sometimes feels like I'm the only one trying to do that) a 57/69 ratio of die-hard Jeopardy fans, most of whom are infinitely better than Bobby at the game, who gather together to specifically discuss the difficulty of Final Jeopardy clues is a pretty striking statistic. There are weekly polls about each FJ clue, and periodically, the pollster gathers the clues that received the lowest percentages of correct responses and asks the membership to choose the most difficult among them.

It's pretty legitimate to say that clue earned its distinction as being one of the toughest ever. This would be the equivalent of asking the membership of Golden Road to pick their least favorite Showcase of the year, and 82% of them named the same one. The fact that Bobby finds it necessary to trot it out over here as "infamous", as if it's another one of those damned tropes we're all supposed to know, is another issue entirely.

TLEberle · « **Reply #12 on:** January 26, 2011, 11:09:02 AM »

[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'255609\' date=\'Jan 26 2011, 05:30 AM\']While I'll be the first to say I would'nt have known the answer either, 57 people in a country of 307,000,000 really isn't a very good sample size.[/quote]Ask about 400 more people, and you got a poll. You wanna volunteer?

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'255610\' date=\'Jan 26 2011, 05:48 AM\']The fact that Bobby finds it necessary to trot it out over here as "infamous", as if it's another one of those damned tropes we're all supposed to know, is another issue entirely.[/quote]That just about sums up my problem with it. Need a shortcut way to say something was terrifically difficult? "Liederkranz! See what I did there?"

I looked at the clue, had no idea what they were going for, but I learned something, which is half the reason I watch the program in the first place. I'm also full of good faith in assuming that the author of that clue assumed that at least one of the three players would be able to solve it, and that someone didn't just go all power trippy and say "I had a bad date last night, and instead of kicking my dog I'm going to take it out on Jeopardy! contestants."

Matt Ottinger · « **Reply #13 on:** January 26, 2011, 11:34:53 AM »

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'255616\' date=\'Jan 26 2011, 11:09 AM\']I'm also full of good faith in assuming that the author of that clue assumed that at least one of the three players would be able to solve it, and that someone didn't just go all power trippy and say "I had a bad date last night, and instead of kicking my dog I'm going to take it out on Jeopardy! contestants."[/quote]
I agree with this completely. Jeopardy and Wheel are both way past the point where they need to fiddle with the final round to control their budgets. That may have been an issue in the 70s, where shows were necessarily cheaper to produce in the first place and Bob Stewart might put "Things that Aren't Chartreuse" in the top box when he'd had a few too many wins in the week. With these two cash cows, assigning an ulterior motive to an occasional tough clue or tough bonus puzzle is just silly.

I've always felt that a good Final Jeopardy clue is one that at least one contestant gets and at least once contestant misses. I'd like to think that's what the writers are shooting for every time.

Twentington · « **Reply #14 on:** January 26, 2011, 01:52:09 PM »

All I said was "I thought Liederkranz was the toughest clue I've ever seen, in my opinion, and Silent Butler the second hardest — and in my opinion, both felt like so-called 'budget saver' clues." I was never trying to imply that they actually were, just what they felt like to me.

Because frankly, game shows would become quite boring if people playing from home knew all the answers, all the time.