Hosts who got worse over time

[Neumms]

Of course, Chuck was tiring of Gong Show and tried to have it pulled off the air early. He tried booking acts that were just plain HORRIBLE and borderline appropriate for TV. (The OOPS graphic got a good workout) Jaye P Morgan joined in by exposing herself and saying the most caustic things to those that got gonged... she was the Simon Cowell of the 70s. Add to that, booking celebs that were WAY past their prime (or never were at their prime) and you've got a trainwreck.

He was and he did? Was that ever reported? The HORRIBLE acts and WAY past their prime celebs were there the whole time, I hate to tell you, and they fired Jaye P. after she bared one breast too many. Sure it was a trainwreck, but that was the appeal.

[SRIV94]

Of course, Chuck was tiring of Gong Show and tried to have it pulled off the air early. He tried booking acts that were just plain HORRIBLE and borderline appropriate for TV. (The OOPS graphic got a good workout) Jaye P Morgan joined in by exposing herself and saying the most caustic things to those that got gonged... she was the Simon Cowell of the 70s. Add to that, booking celebs that were WAY past their prime (or never were at their prime) and you've got a trainwreck.

He was and he did? Was that ever reported? The HORRIBLE acts and WAY past their prime celebs were there the whole time, I hate to tell you, and they fired Jaye P. after she bared one breast too many. Sure it was a trainwreck, but that was the appeal.

He did write in a couple of his books (years after the fact) that he was tiring of the show and wouldn't have minded seeing it end shortly before NBC canceled it (and realized he was having his midlife crisis on national teewee).

I question some of the validity of it, considering he did two more nighttime seasons after NBC canceled it (granted, once or twice a week instead of five shows, but still if he wanted it to end he could have).

[whewfan]

He was and he did? Was that ever reported? The HORRIBLE acts and WAY past their prime celebs were there the whole time, I hate to tell you, and they fired Jaye P. after she bared one breast too many. Sure it was a trainwreck, but that was the appeal.

True, but in the beginning, they did have some celebs that certainly weren't on their way out the door... Jamie Farr was a regular, and MASH was very much going strong. David Letterman and Steve Martin were new to the comedy scene when they appeared on the show, Chuck Woolery was still doing Wheel, and Allen Ludden was between Password gigs.

[SRIV94]

True, but in the beginning, they did have some celebs that certainly weren't on their way out the door... Jamie Farr was a regular, and MASH was very much going strong. David Letterman and Steve Martin were new to the comedy scene when they appeared on the show, Chuck Woolery was still doing Wheel, and Allen Ludden was between Password gigs.

Remember, though, that Farr's Klinger in those days was just a one-note character.  I said once on these boards that it was easier to take Klinger out of the dress once more people knew who he was, and Farr's appearances on GONG helped in that regard.

Not sure about Dave, but I'm pretty sure Steve Martin's back-to-back weeks as a judge were booked as a part of a holding deal with NBC.

Also, shifting gears--what did you mean regarding the Ludden "actual last show, not the one thought to be his last show"?

[Matt Ottinger]

I question some of the validity of it, considering he did two more nighttime seasons after NBC canceled it (granted, once or twice a week instead of five shows, but still if he wanted it to end he could have).

I think you're safe to question the validity of anything Chuck Barris has ever said or written.  This is a man who claimed The Dating Game was a front for his secret CIA spy work.  Saying he was ready to quit just before NBC decided to drop him seems the whitest of lies by comparison, especially since, as you say, he continued to milk the syndicated show for all he could.

[whewfan]

There was an episode of PW+ in the trading circuit that was THOUGHT to be the last one Ludden did. Someone posted Ludden's ACTUAL last episode on YouTube recently.

[whewfan]

There was an episode of PW+ in the trading circuit that was THOUGHT to be the last one Ludden did. Someone posted Ludden's ACTUAL last episode on YouTube recently.



This is part one of Ludden's last show... the one going around the trading circuit, which was reportedly his last one, Vicki and Robert are wearing red, and Allen acknowledged it.

[SRIV94]

There was an episode of PW+ in the trading circuit that was THOUGHT to be the last one Ludden did. Someone posted Ludden's ACTUAL last episode on YouTube recently.

Ah.  I'm a very small part of the trading circuit, so I wasn't aware of the discrepancy.

[SRIV94]

This is a man who claimed The Dating Game was a front for his secret CIA spy work.

You mean it wasn't?

Seriously, I think there was a kernel of truth about Barris not wanting to deal with NBC people (at least for the first three seasons of the nighttime version, the network of record was ABC, with whom Barris had a much better history).  Don't forget how swimmingly he and Lin Bolen got along (there are conflicting stories with Barris' two books about whether Bolen was in charge of NBC daytime at the time NBC picked GONG up--Confessions suggested she was, The Game Show King stated she wasn't).  Of course, Bolen wasn't around by the time GONG left NBC, but even so Barris had a few run-ins with the network brass by then (for the Popsicle Twins, among others--yet GONG still lasted almost a full year after their appearance).

[JasonA1]

This is part one of Ludden's last show

I think the eerie coincidence, moreso than Allen having a rough time of it on his last episode, is that Tom Kennedy came up in a puzzle.

-Jason

[colonial]

I'd give Bill Cullen a pass with TJW.  I don't think he was getting worse by the time TJW came around, but that the show wasn't a right fit for him.  Cullen's "folksy grandpa" style of hosting didn't really match with the "used car salesman" feel that Jack Barry showcased.

Peter Marshall seemed to deteriorate in quality post-HS.  It didn't help that two of his post-HS games, "Yahtzee" and "Reel to Reel Picture Show," were royal messes known more for backstage and internal turmoil than anything else.  But Marshall looked completely lost at times on both shows, unsure of rules and format and struggling to manage the unmanagable.

JD

[BillCullen1]

I agree with Barker and Rayburn getting worse on TPIR and MG. Age caught up with Barker and maybe Rayburn just wanted to move on. I don't agree about Ludden - he did PP till he was no longer physically able to. I know Ludden did a week on the syndie MG around the time he got ill. He sat next to Betty in the Richard Dawson memorial chair. He seemed to be enjoying himself there.

[RMF]

Seriously, I think there was a kernel of truth about Barris not wanting to deal with NBC people (at least for the first three seasons of the nighttime version, the network of record was ABC, with whom Barris had a much better history).

Is there any evidence that this is specific to NBC, thought? Since at least the late 1960s, Barris has imagined himself as a maverick(I believe that a LIFE Magazine profile from 1969 or so should be on Google Books, if you want some evidence), and his arguing with network executives would be part of that.

[Neumms]

I agree with Barker and Rayburn getting worse on TPIR and MG. Age caught up with Barker and maybe Rayburn just wanted to move on.

It's funny about Rayburn. There were definitely some rollicking times on the syndicated show, especially with McLean Stevenson. Still, I wonder if both he and Brett had a harder time holding their vino as time went on. Gene seemed pretty sluggish, and Brett looked less like the life of the party, more like she was tired and needed a ride home.

[SRIV94]

Seriously, I think there was a kernel of truth about Barris not wanting to deal with NBC people (at least for the first three seasons of the nighttime version, the network of record was ABC, with whom Barris had a much better history).

Is there any evidence that this is specific to NBC, thought? Since at least the late 1960s, Barris has imagined himself as a maverick(I believe that a LIFE Magazine profile from 1969 or so should be on Google Books, if you want some evidence), and his arguing with network executives would be part of that.

I'm sure he had his moments with ABC people as well (Edwin Vane comes to mind during the run-through for HOW'S YOUR MOTHER-IN-LAW), but I don't think it's a coincidence that GONG was originally pitched to ABC (and the pilot taped at ABC-owned KGO in San Francisco) after the success he had with DATING and NEWLYWED, and I believe most if not all his early syndicated shows taped at ABC's studios (either the Vine Street Theatre or at Prospect and Talmedge).  I don't think he'd keep going back to them for pitching and studio facility rental if he were completely at odds with their brass.

Bear in mind too that one reason Barris ended up selling GONG to NBC after reformatting the show (from a good talent showcase to a bad one) was that ABC had no more room on its schedule (they had just bought this little show called FAMILY FEUD).  And Lin Bolen was the one executive who he took shots at in his books as well as one day in 1977 on air--the sign on stage that said "It's not Lin Bolen Day."

Perhaps I'm reading between the lines just a bit, but I don't know if we'd ever get a completely straight answer out of Chuckie Baby if we were to ask him now.