Are older game shows from the 1950s-1980s really expensive?

[Vahan_Nisanian]

I keep hearing about how older game shows from the 1950s-1980s are very expensive, and therefore newer shows are cheaper to get.

But really, Is there a demand for them from any network in the U.S. except GSN? Even Casey Abell, of all people, said that he can't understand this theory that old game shows have suddenly gotten expensive.

[J.R.]

Even Casey Abell, of all people, said that he can't understand this theory that old game shows have suddenly gotten expensive.

He's still beating that drum? Goodness.

[Chelsea Thrasher]

It's not that older shows are "expensive" per se. Come on, be realistic. Fremantle certainly isn't asking for ten million per episode for Now You See It. That's weapons-grade idiotic.   Right now, the channel's management feel that they get a greater value for their money by producing original programming and renewing the lease on Karn and O'Hurley's Feud than they'd get in leasing whatever particular older series you might fancy.   If the day comes where they think that the gains from leasing Tic Tac Dough will justify the costs, then they'll do it. Until then, they won't.

[Matt Ottinger]

I keep hearing about how older game shows from the 1950s-1980s are very expensive, and therefore newer shows are cheaper to get.

I'd be very interested in knowing where you "keep hearing" this.*  Because it's nonsense.**  I don't believe anybody here has been saying it, or they'd probably have been corrected.  In general, it's more expensive to buy newer shows than older ones.  Newer shows are more popular, and therefore command a higher price in the open market.

GSN has not eliminated the classics because they're "very expensive".  They've eliminated the classics because they're chasing a younger audience, just like every other cable network.  As for the Fremantle "classics" that everyone moans about missing, whatever price Fremantle wanted to get for them was higher than the price GSN wanted to pay for them.  That doesn't mean they were expensive, it just means GSN didn't want to pay the price, whatever it was.  There are probably many that GSN isn't interested in at any price.



*Come to think of it, you probably hear it from the "experts" on the GSN board.
**Again, GSN board.

[Vahan_Nisanian]

It's not that older shows are "expensive" per se. Come on, be realistic. Fremantle certainly isn't asking for ten million per episode for Now You See It. That's weapons-grade idiotic.   Right now, the channel's management feel that they get a greater value for their money by producing original programming and renewing the lease on Karn and O'Hurley's Feud than they'd get in leasing whatever particular older series you might fancy.   If the day comes where they think that the gains from leasing Tic Tac Dough will justify the costs, then they'll do it. Until then, they won't.

Also, when it comes to acquiring a pre-1990s show that has never aired on GSN before, (assuming it hasn't been done already, of course), the tapes would also have to be converted from analog to digital, and that could cost a fortune. In addition, different videotape formats were used depending on the time the show was made in. Up until the mid to late 1970s, videotaped shows were done on the bulky and often unreliable 2'' inch tape, from that point on until a decade ago, they were done on the smaller and more reliable 1'' inch.

[Matt Ottinger]

Also, when it comes to acquiring a pre-1990s show that has never aired on GSN before, (assuming it hasn't been done already, of course), the tapes would also have to be converted from analog to digital, and that could cost a fortune. In addition, different videotape formats were used depending on the time the show was made in. Up until the mid to late 1970s, videotaped shows were done on the bulky and often unreliable 2'' inch tape, from that point on until a decade ago, they were done on the smaller and more reliable 1'' inch.

OK, yes, that's a different matter.  It is VERY expensive to transfer video from obsolete formats onto new digital ones.  That's a separate matter from how much a rights holder would charge for GSN (or anybody else) to be able to play them.  Presumably, it would be up to the rights holder (Fremantle or whoever) to supply the network (GSN or whoever) with playable material.

[BrandonFG]

Not so much expensive as it is the fact that the older shows don't get the ratings they want, and those ratings don't pull as much money. That doesn't make them more expensive, per se, it just doesn't make any money back.

[clemon79]

Not so much expensive as it is the fact that the older shows don't get the ratings they want, and those ratings don't pull as much money. That doesn't make them more expensive, per se, it just doesn't make any money back.

When the cost of leasing a show is higher than the revenue it produces, that show, pretty much by definition, is expensive.

[Eric Paddon]

OK, yes, that's a different matter.  It is VERY expensive to transfer video from obsolete formats onto new digital ones.  That's a separate matter from how much a rights holder would charge for GSN (or anybody else) to be able to play them.  Presumably, it would be up to the rights holder (Fremantle or whoever) to supply the network (GSN or whoever) with playable material.

If I recall correctly, isn't that the reason why "Bullseye" never aired on GSN (except for one episode one time) even during the glory days of GSN?

[Vahan_Nisanian]

The story is that GSN only converted the first 50 and the last 50 episodes of the show to digibeta. But an episode that was shown in 2007, wasn't anywhere in that range. USA Network and CBN used the original 1'' inch masters.

[Ian Wallis]

Re. Bullseye, GSN actually aired close to 10 episodes of it.  Most near the beginning of the run, but a few celebrity episodes near the end of the run as well.

OK, yes, that's a different matter. It is VERY expensive to transfer video from obsolete formats onto new digital ones. That's a separate matter from how much a rights holder would charge for GSN

That brings up an interesting question:  when GSN first went on the air, they announced they had a library of 50,000 episodes.  Over the years they acquired more (such as Bob Stewart's library) and are probably closer to 60,000 by now.

Anyone know how much of that library might have actually been converted?  We heard about a possible scenario with Bullseye, but I would have thought most of what they had would have been ready to air at any time.  We know that most (or all) of GT was converted, plus a lot of the shorter-lived shows from the other libraries (Barris, Barry, Griffin) that aired during what some people refer to as "the dark period".  If all those shorter-lived shows were converted and ready for air at that time, isn't it safe to assume that most of that library was converted at some point?  I'd be surprised if they still have thousands of episodes sitting there that weren't.

[chris319]

Not so much expensive as it is the fact that the older shows don't get the ratings they want, and those ratings don't pull as much money. That doesn't make them more expensive, per se, it just doesn't make any money back.

Also, the license fee goes out the door to Fremantle or whomever. It's money out of their pocket.

[toddyo]

Any exclusivities with the Fremantle library and GSN? With the growth of ME-TV, I wonder if they would put in a daytime game show block.

[Matt Ottinger]

The story is that GSN only converted the first 50 and the last 50 episodes of the show to digibeta. But an episode that was shown in 2007, wasn't anywhere in that range. USA Network and CBN used the original 1'' inch masters.

It's time to change the story.  I've been told reliably that the entire run of Bullseye, 390 episodes, was transferred to digibeta.  My source believes that Sony transferred "almost all of the game shows in their library" to digi as a preservation measure, regardless of whether they had any plans to air it.