Ranking 15 end games

[wdm1219inpenna]

For the purposes of this post, I am comparing the end games for 5 different Barry & Enright programs that aired between 1970 & 1986.  The shows are "The Joker's Wild", "Tic Tac Dough", "Bullseye", "Play the Percentages" and "Hot Potato".

I will rank them from 15 through 1, and offer my take on why I ranked them as I did.  I will be curious to hear others' opinions about these end games.

One thing that seemed somewhat unfair is the misconception that all B&E end games had the same idea, to "avoid the bad guy".  I know the night time "Break the Bank" had this concept incorporated.

15th - The Joker's Wild, CBS, 2 spins, no circled prizes.  I know for the first couple of shows at least, some prizes had circles around them and to win a car, a player had to spin all 3 prizes with circles.  Then the show replaced this with just prizes, and made one of the prizes a car.  A contestant named "Tex" won a car by doing this.  It seemed far too simple to do this.  I never knew exactly, and still don't know, just how many different slides each wheel had.  I seem to recall once reading where each one had 12, so if in fact Tex pulled a car, with a 1 in 12 chance of it coming up, then that's awesome.  Still, it seemed too easy to win a car this way, and this is why this bonus game was ranked 15th out of 15.

14th - The Joker's Wild, CBS, 2 spins with circles prizes.  Not too surprising that this ranks only a little bit higher.  If a player spun once and had 3 pretty nice prizes, they had the dilemma, do they risk giving them up to go for the car.  I don't know how many different prizes were loaded on each wheel, and I don't know how many of each were circled either.  I wonder if the contestant was informed of this information?  


13th - The Joker's Wild, CBS, jokers & devils with 4 spins.  For a very brief time, and I know I saw this on one youtube video, after a player spun 3 times and got all jokers, they could quit with the 3 prizes won or they could risk it and spin once more to win a car.  That seemed a bit too easy to me, though it could prove rather suspenseful.


12th - The Joker's Wild, CBS, jokers & devils with 3 spins.  I liked this better, and the fact that the car became part of the Joker's Jackpot.  This could have some suspense too, but again, not sure if one of the reels had 10 jokers and 2 devils, or how it worked exactly.


11th - The Joker's Wild, CBS & Syndicated, money & devils.  My understanding, and again anybody who knows differently please correct me, is that each reel had 12 slides.  Each reel had 2 $25, 2 $50, 2 $75, 2 $100, 2 $150 and 2 $200 spots, but one reel replaced a $150 and $200 card with devil slides, thus a player had a 1 in 6 chance of having the devil appear.  My understanding also is that those 12 slides were used for the main game, and each of the 5 categories appeared twice, as well as 2 jokers per reel.  Was there any rhyme or reason as to which window (left, center or right) would house the devil, since sometimes he'd appear in the left, sometimes the middle, and sometimes the right?  I liked this game because players could decide to quit and take the cash.  I liked that they could get an instant win with a natural triple too.  It was fun and unique whenever Jack (or Jim or Bill) would count out the money when handing it to the contestant.  Also loved the sound effect and the lights that led to the giant slot machine.

10th - Bullseye with option to freeze windows.  I never understood why a player would not freeze a window if that came up!  You'd run the risk otherwise, and was it really worth it to possibly score another $100, or maybe $200?

9th - Tic Tac Dough, syndicated, where you had to get $1000 exactly to win.  I've read, but I've never seen a video, where during the "Beat the Dragon" game, a player had to score $1,000 on the nose to win.  If a player had selected $500, $400 and $300, would they risk $1,200 to try to get TIC & TAC, since that would become the only way they could win?  If they went over $1,000 did they lose?  Did they get to keep just the cash?

8th - Bullseye with automatic freezing for bullseyes - This made much more sense.  Also, one thing I forgot about, the old version had a rule where after 10 spins, you'd automatically win, but they reduced it to 7, which made much more sense to me.  Nothing worse than devoting half a program to a bonus round!!!

7th - Tic Tac Dough, syndicated, $1000 or more or get TIC & TAC.  I preferred this version, the most well known of the end games for this show.  Players had a bit more freedom of choice vs. being at the mercy of the spins on Joker & Bullseye.  Always a nice option to be able to quit & take the money in the pot, though it seems later in the show's run, that rule was seldom, if ever, pointed out.

6th - Tic Tac Dough, CBS, find 3 in a row before the dragon.  Some strategy and thinking was involved with this game, it wasn't merely blind luck.  I rather enjoyed playing this when Flashgames still was allowed to have it

5th - Play the Percentages, 6 items listed, avoid the 0.  I like bonus games that require some thought, and this one definitely did.  Trouble is, when it got down to the last two, it seemed players bailed out much more often.  Better to take $930 sure thing rather than risk trying to win $70 more and $2,500 in additional merchandise prizes, many of which players maybe did not want or need, or did not want the added tax burden!

4th - Play the percentages, 3 items listed.  If the married couple selected the 2nd most popular answer, they were required to identify the most popular answer.

3rd - Hot Potato end game.  Did this bonus game have a name?  Sadly it didn't really tie in with the main game theme at all.  I guess technically it did, since players could pass by "tossing" one bonus question away, one that was maybe too "hot" to handle.  Liked this game in that you needed some trivia knowledge.

2nd - Play the Percentages, no target number.  Also players were not required to pick the top answer of 3 if they didn't do so the first time.  I liked this too because more than just one question was used during this bonus game.

1st - Play the Percentages with target number.  I loved this the best and after they changed it (just 5 shows later), I was so very disappointed.  Apparently Mr. Barry & Mr. Enright were unable and/or unwilling to pay out to get the electronic readout thing fixed on the giant percentage sign that would lift up during this end game.  I hated that the big cash jackpot was made available during the main game instead.  One couple won $36,000 in the main game for getting an exact percentage, then at the bonus game, Geoff asked if they wanted to risk something like $630 and he said how silly he felt asking that after they just won 36 grand!  The "target number" part of the bonus game was awesome!  I also loved that a bonus win meant $2,500 in cold hard cash, and not "prize packages" which were the standard lot for the other B&E shows of the day.  I loved this program, the original version of it anyway, and it really could have had great potential, but it seems B&E kept monkeying around and changing the format so often, eventually turning it into a 2 player game, and it was just awful at the end, but even so, Geoff Edwards was still an awesome host!

That's my list and my comments, what are yours?

[Dbacksfan12]

One thing that seemed somewhat unfair is the misconception that all B&E end games had the same idea, to "avoid the bad guy".  I know the night time "Break the Bank" had this concept incorporated.

How is this unfair?  The dragon, devil, and lightning bolts are all interchangeable.  Strip away the chrome and you pretty much have some random factor with money amounts.

[parliboy]

Yes, but that doesn't represent all B&E end games, just the ones that are more well known.

[Unrealtor]

I disagree that Hot Potato's endgame didn't fit the front game. It didn't fit the mechanic that gave the show its title, but "Which of these two movies made more at the box office?" works as an end game when your front game is "What are the seven most popular flavors of ice cream?".

[TLEberle]

I question the sensibility of counting "$1000 exactly" and "$1000 or more" or "Jokers/Devils with 4 spins" and "Jokers/Devils with 3 spins" as different.

It is my understanding that each slide projector had twenty slides, and for the 77-86 bonus game, there was but one devil in the mix.

[Otm Shank]

One thing that seemed somewhat unfair is the misconception that all B&E end games had the same idea, to "avoid the bad guy".

First, I always avoid the word all or every. As much as a fan as I am of the genre, someone always pulls out an example from some obscure show I've never seen.

It is obvious that the $1,000 randomized bonus round was the little chestnut they fell back on when there was no content-driven bonus round. The formula was so near identical: champion advances from mid-camera-left to long-camera-right, wait through an energy-sapping roll call of fabulous prizes, contestant takes a turn at a random event, host builds up a surrender option, contestant takes a turn at a random event, host builds up a surrender option, ... , win at $1,000 while you "avoid the bad guy."

It was so much more that made the bonus rounds identical, that their differences were just nuance. When the shows aired back-to-back, even the game material was similar in presentation, only slightly altered for the game mechanics.

[whewfan]

One thing that seemed somewhat unfair is the misconception that all B&E end games had the same idea, to "avoid the bad guy".

First, I always avoid the word all or every. As much as a fan as I am of the genre, someone always pulls out an example from some obscure show I've never seen.

It is obvious that the $1,000 randomized bonus round was the little chestnut they fell back on when there was no content-driven bonus round. The formula was so near identical: champion advances from mid-camera-left to long-camera-right, wait through an energy-sapping roll call of fabulous prizes, contestant takes a turn at a random event, host builds up a surrender option, contestant takes a turn at a random event, host builds up a surrender option, ... , win at $1,000 while you "avoid the bad guy."

It was so much more that made the bonus rounds identical, that their differences were just nuance. When the shows aired back-to-back, even the game material was similar in presentation, only slightly altered for the game mechanics.

Without a doubt, the LONGEST bonus game was Bullseye. Granted, the potential payoff was larger than any B&E show on at the time ($5000+ prizes for a 10 spin win... I don't think it became 7 spins until it became Celebrity Bullseye) but the psychadelic spinners were quite slow, and IMO the pacing of the show in general was always a bit slow...no wonder most of the celebs that appeared in the celebrity version looked quite bored. This isn't to say I don't like Bullseye... it's actually one of my faves, but it could've moved faster. There were some episodes that started with a bonus game ALREADY IN PROGRESS. There's something you didn't see often in a game show, a bonus round so long that it carries over into the next game.

[BrandonFG]

It was so much more that made the bonus rounds identical, that their differences were just nuance. When the shows aired back-to-back, even the game material was similar in presentation, only slightly altered for the game mechanics.

I remember back in the ATGS era c. 1998, there was a pretty lengthy debate about whether or not Bullseye was a rip-off of TJW. Thinking back, the three windows, two contestants, and target goal were the only similarities, and even then, the third window contained the required number of questions. If anything, it seems Bullseye was more of a "spinoff", in the sense of that the front game was an extended Fast Forward category.

Kinda similar to how MG 7x's Audience Match led to Feud. Honestly, Barry & Enright didn't have too many creative ideas. Most of them were very derivative of other shows, and mostly gave away the same prize packages Otm Shank described, and the Chevettes offered to 5-time champions.

[Neumms]

I remember back in the ATGS era c. 1998, there was a pretty lengthy debate about whether or not Bullseye was a rip-off of TJW. Thinking back, the three windows, two contestants, and target goal were the only similarities, and even then, the third window contained the required number of questions. If anything, it seems Bullseye was more of a "spinoff", in the sense of that the front game was an extended Fast Forward category.

Bullseye was a more interesting game with a stronger element of risk. The questions were harder, too. The trouble was the laziness with which they mounted the show and the woefully dull host. The circus motif and the spinners look silly with a fairly rigorous game. Even the name doesn't fit any of the name mechanics, just that they needed a graphic device that fit in a round window.

[clemon79]

Honestly, Barry & Enright didn't have too many creative ideas.

But they did have Concentration, and for that pretty much everything else is forgiven.

[TLEberle]

Honestly, Barry & Enright didn't have too many creative ideas. Most of them were very derivative of other shows, and mostly gave away the same prize packages Otm Shank described, and the Chevettes offered to 5-time champions.

I'm not sure they had to. You have a fun game wrapped around something traditional (a slot machine or tic tac toe), you have people enjoying themselves and winning stuff. Sure, the questions were pedestrian, the suspense was as synthetic as my thyroid medication, but the product was good enough that you didn't care.

Now, when they're nakedly trying to ape something (like, say Hollywood Connection) and totally botching it, yes, you watch, say how terrible it is that they're copying something, sure.

Bullseye was a more interesting game with a stronger element of risk. The questions were harder, too. The trouble was the laziness with which they mounted the show and the woefully dull host. The circus motif and the spinners look silly with a fairly rigorous game. Even the name doesn't fit any of the name mechanics, just that they needed a graphic device that fit in a round window.

I really didn't see that. I saw the same asinine questions, except the game was lengthened because you could need twenty questions to reach the end, whereas on Joker's Wild it could be done in four or five. Sure, you have the element of risk at various discrete spots, but the way the game dragged overpowered that part.

[BrandonFG]

I just realized my comments about B&E's 70s and 80s games sounded way harsher than I intended. My main point was that they did occasionally heavily borrow from other shows, and that Bullseye used a lot of TJW's elements. The wordy questions and faux drama gave the shows a strange charm you just don't see anymore...same for the prize packages*.

I think my biggest problem with Bullseye was how badly it dragged at times. Making the target goal $2,000 turned a fairly solid Q&A into a tedious chore, and stretching the bonus round between two shows was just all kinds of bad TV. I think the bonus round had too much going on, with the "get 3 Bullseyes or make it through 10 spins". They might as well had said "If you're still spinning after #10, then just take the damn Z-Brick". At that point, I would've been okay with it being a race to $1,000 or three Bullseyes being the equivalent of getting TIC/TAC or a natural triple.

*Were those packages set up similarly to The Newlywed Game, in that contestants specified what they'd rather have? It sometimes seemed to be more of a preference deal...

[TimK2003]

I think my biggest problem with Bullseye was how badly it dragged at times. Making the target goal $2,000 turned a fairly solid Q&A into a tedious chore, and stretching the bonus round between two shows across *at least* one commercial break was just all kinds of bad TV.

FTFY

If there was any B&E game show that needed Jim Peck to rip-roar through the questions to make the game "move" fluidly, Bullseye was the show.

[aaron sica]

I think my biggest problem with Bullseye was how badly it dragged at times. Making the target goal $2,000 turned a fairly solid Q&A into a tedious chore, and stretching the bonus round between two shows was just all kinds of bad TV. I think the bonus round had too much going on, with the "get 3 Bullseyes or make it through 10 spins". They might as well had said "If you're still spinning after #10, then just take the damn Z-Brick". At that point, I would've been okay with it being a race to $1,000 or three Bullseyes being the equivalent of getting TIC/TAC or a natural triple.

I found myself always cheering against a 4 or 5 question contract when those wheels would spin.....Otherwise I would change the channel..

[JasonA1]

I think my biggest problem with Bullseye was how badly it dragged at times. Making the target goal $2,000 turned a fairly solid Q&A into a tedious chore

FWIW, the values on the wheels doubled when the goal did, so the game was not really any longer than before, even though it may have felt that way.

Above all else, it seemed silly to me that the namesake of the show, the big huge prop center stage, was used so seldom. My first move to "fix" that would be to re-spin a contract once both players miss the same question. The money would stay in the pot, but the only way it could be claimed is after a completed contract.

-Jason