Network Games In The Morning - Would they Survive?

[Skynet74]

Let's flashback 20 years. A great time for Games with Full Game Show Blocks on every Network. Let's pretend each Network makes a full commitment to air Game Shows in the morning again. Let's say 10 to Noon Eastern or 9 to 11 Pacific. Just like the good old days. All New versions of our old time favorites such as Match Game, Password, Scrabble and perhaps some totally new shows in the mix. How successful do you think such programming would be in the year 2004? Has the public got so used to talk show drivel that such programming that aired twenty years ago would not work with todays audience (or) do you feel that this would be a change that viewers would embrace and welcome? In your mind would it be successful? I would like to hear your thoughts.


Thanks,

John

[beatlefreak84]

As a hard-core game show fan, I would naturally say, "Of course they would succeed in the daytime!"  But, that's not what you're looking for, I assume!  

One thing I should say first:  At my school, I usually eat dinner around the time WOF, FF, and Pyramid come on.  We do have a place in the cafeteria with a big-screen projection TV, so I usually put it on whatever game show is on at the moment, and, whenever I look around, I notice something peculiar:  Whenever any other show is on TV, other people around the TV don't really look; they just do homework.  When a game show is on, EVERYBODY looks and most people will stay and watch until the end, even if they're all ready to go.  I find this amazing, especially since this has happened EVERY TIME I've put on a game show.

From the above, I've concluded that, as much as people hate to admit it, they love game shows.  What's more, they love game shows that challenge their brain; this reaction above doesn't happen with any of the relationship game shows.  So, if the networks went back to shows like they had in the '80s, I think it would be a modest success.  It won't be groundbreaking success, but I think it would probably match the numbers that the talk shows get, and maybe do a little better.

Everybody whom I've talked to says that talk shows, especially the trashy ones, are getting old, and they're looking for a change.  Why not daytime game shows?

Anthony

P.S.  I had a friend over today, and, even though she doesn't watch game shows, she STILL sat down and watched until the end of "Nick Arcade!"  And, no, I didn't make her do that!  

[Little Big Brother]

All New versions of our old time favorites such as Match Game, Password, Scrabble and perhaps some totally new shows in the mix.

Password: Yes.  Scrabble:  Yes.  Match Game:  Do we really want to walk down that path again?  I think the initial appeal of the original MG was the shock that the audience had when the answer was "Boobs".  Granted, that word still makes me giggle, but the guilty pleasures and schoolyard snickering that MG '7x had just can't be recreated (also, the celebrities had a bit more personality and were less grating than, say, Judy Tenuda).  But I digress, we could debate the merits of MG '98 for hours on end, but that wasn't your question.

How successful do you think such programming would be in the year 2004? Has the public got so used to talk show drivel that such programming that aired twenty years ago would not work with todays audience (or) do you feel that this would be a change that viewers would embrace and welcome? In your mind would it be successful?

Although game shows remain popular, I think networks would be reluctant to persue morning game show programming with good reasons.  First off, I doubt any opposing network would really want to go up against TPIR.  Last season, the NBC affiliate in Detroit put Pyramid and Weakest Link in the 11-Noon slot.  TWL is gone and Pyramid was shuffled over to the UPN station at 9 am.

Second, I'm not 100% sure how affiliate/network relations have changed in the past 20 years, but it seems that the affiliates have a lot more control over when programming happens.  In Detroit, Guiding Light comes on before TPIR so that CBS62 can get an early start on the afternoon court shows (My sweetheart Marilyn Milian and The People's Court are in the 3PM slot).  This has been the style on 62 ever since court shows hit it big in the mid 90's, and I doubt that they want that changed.

Thirdly, although we rank game shows above court shows and talk shows, other people that make up the TV audience may rank the three differently.  Both the affiliates and the network want to provide a mix that will satisfy the most number of viewers and advertisers.  Also, if another company is producing shows for your station, you only have to pay for the subscription, which is significantly cheaper than production costs.

I would like to hear your thoughts.

I would too :-)

[DrJWJustice]

[quote name=\'Little Big Brother\' date=\'Dec 17 2003, 10:49 PM\'] Match Game:  Do we really want to walk down that path again?  
 [/quote]
 (snip)

Why not walk down the path again?  Only this time, let's get it right!  Pearson missed the essence of the show when they tried it in '98 (and let's not forget a near total lack of advertising).  Sure, our humor today is a bit more sultry than it was in the '70s, but I don't think the 'shock' value of answers like 'boobs' is the sole thing that kept us glued to the screen for nine years.  People tuned in to watch a half hour party on TV every morning.

Let me put it another way -- I've helped produce live versions of the program at three national Boy Scouts of America conferences.  The kids couldn't get enough, and we are talking about kids who barely out of diapers when the '90 version aired, let alone Gene's classic being long-since gone.

Point being, the show can work, but it needs the right atmosphere, the right chemistry among the celebs and the right type of humor.  Granted, that's far easier said than done, but I do think it's worth a go.

[The Ol' Guy]

Another thing to consider - during those "golden days", the networks shared revenues with affiliates for carrying the shows. As the networks cut payments back, the locals had to make it up. One of our NBC affiliates dropped a half-hour of net in the morning to carry the then-new Narz version of syndicated Concentration. As one of the managers put it, if we carry a net show, we can only sell one minute of local commercials. If I can buy Concentration for about $35 a day and sell 90% of the ad time and get about the same ratings, then we'll drop a weaker net show anytime. So if a net show was quite hot, you might get some affiliates to hang in there. If they could do equal or better with a syndicated or local product, they'll go for the revenue. I would imagine the mass defection of affiliates due to revenue sharing issues was a major factor in the demise of many of our favorites. The nets would have to really give affiliates a good reason and a good lineup to let them take over that air time.

[mmb5]

[quote name=\'Little Big Brother\' date=\'Dec 17 2003, 10:49 PM\'] Although game shows remain popular, I think networks would be reluctant to persue morning game show programming with good reasons.  First off, I doubt any opposing network would really want to go up against TPIR.  Last season, the NBC affiliate in Detroit put Pyramid and Weakest Link in the 11-Noon slot.  TWL is gone and Pyramid was shuffled over to the UPN station at 9 am.

 [/quote]
 Actually the current Detroit CBS station has Guiding Light on at 10 AM because the previous CBS station had it at 10, well before the court show glut.  IIRC, there was no FF '94 in Detroit (or it aired on another station).

Also, Pyramid was shuttled off to UPN because the NBC station was forced to pick up Jack and Ali, which they really didn't want, but it was sold to all Post-Newsweek stations.  Pyramid actually beat TPIR in the ratings last year, but now TPIR has reclaimed the #2 spot at 11 AM in Detroit.



--Mike

[inturnaround]

Network programming during the daytime has decreased over the years as the affiliates want the time for lucrative syndicated programming. I mean, look at the ABC O&Os. They're booked solid in the morning with Disney shows. 9AM is Regis and Kelly, 10AM is Wayne Brady and 11AM is the only morning hour that belongs to the network with "The View".

I don't think the game are coming from the networks anymore. It doesn't make much sense for them to do it. It's much cheaper for them to produce a newsmagazine than a game show. No, syndication is where game shows will stay.

Now, as to would they survive...well, putting aside what I said about the network's willingness to show them, I don't know. I think everything is cyclical, but it could be that the game show spot in the cycle has been coopted by other things. It's all about the right game for the right time and there's no science that can tell you what might work.

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'inturnaround\' date=\'Dec 18 2003, 08:32 AM\'] Network programming during the daytime has decreased over the years as the affiliates want the time for lucrative syndicated programming. I mean, look at the ABC O&Os. They're booked solid in the morning with Disney shows. 9AM is Regis and Kelly, 10AM is Wayne Brady and 11AM is the only morning hour that belongs to the network with "The View".
 [/quote]
 Not to take from your point, which is a good one, but consider that ABC O&O WLS in Chicago doesn't even carry two of the three shows you mentioned.  R&K airs on WGN (local feed only, not superstation) on a three-hour delay and Brady's show airs on independent WCIU opposite WLS' broadcast of THE VIEW.  Of course, as long as Oprah continues to rake 'em in there's no reason for WLS to carry any of those other syndie shows (Oprah's big enough--you can take that any way you want--to have her show carried twice by WLS, the second time making JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE JIMMY KIMMEL TAPED).

Doug

[Jimmy Owen]

[quote name=\'mmb5\' date=\'Dec 18 2003, 08:37 AM\']
Actually the current Detroit CBS station has Guiding Light on at 10 AM because the previous CBS station had it at 10, well before the court show glut.  IIRC, there was no FF '94 in Detroit (or it aired on another station).

Also, Pyramid was shuttled off to UPN because the NBC station was forced to pick up Jack and Ali, which they really didn't want, but it was sold to all Post-Newsweek stations.  Pyramid actually beat TPIR in the ratings last year, but now TPIR has reclaimed the #2 spot at 11 AM in Detroit.



--Mike [/quote]
 Only Detroiters would be interested, but the CBS Feud started on Ch. 2 and finished its run on  ch. 38. The syndie Combs Feud went from Ch. 2 to Ch 62 (before it became a CBS O&O).  The Dawson Feud of 94 was on Channel 50 at noon for only a half hour.

[Starkman]

Also bear in mind that there are fewer people actually watching tv at those hours these days. Thus less variety as many target demos are out at work at these times.

Also a note about Match Game, correct me if im wrong but wasnt its heyday when it aired in the (long lost to the networks) afternoon time slot to catch the after school HS/college crowd.

And I always thought regis was an ABC show...shows how much I know hehe.

[inturnaround]

[quote name=\'Starkman\' date=\'Dec 18 2003, 11:46 AM\']
And I always thought regis was an ABC show...shows how much I know hehe. [/quote]
 Regis and Kelly is a syndicated show produced by Buena Vista Televison which is owned by Disney and broadcast out of WABC in New York.  Since Disney took over ABC, they have been trying to get their syndie product on their O&Os. Unfortunately, that's not always possible in every market, but I bet in a few years they'll achieve what they want.

Already they acquired syndie WWTBAM for their O&Os and Wayne Brady seems to be what replaced Rosie O'Donnell on most stations(that's what killed Caroline Rhea, Rosie's designated heir).

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'mmb5\' date=\'Dec 18 2003, 08:37 AM\']Actually the current Detroit CBS station has Guiding Light on at 10 AM because the previous CBS station had it at 10, well before the court show glut.  [/quote]
There may be a "glut," but virtually every one of those court shows is performing well in the ratings, so they'll be around for a while.

So far, despite the improved performance of many syndicated game shows this season, there haven't been any new ones announced yet as we get closer to NATPE.  This has to be because of the long lead time in developing syndicated series (the big trend this year so far seems to be the how-to/makeover genre, thanks to all of those shows on cable).  I wouldn't be surprised if there will be a new batch of game shows coming out for September 2005 (or maybe earlier), unless the genre makes a big ratings reversal next year at this time.

[DjohnsonCB]

The probable refusal of the major networks to return to game shows en masse makes it sound like there would be no chance for a possible "Concentration" revival since NBC may hold the rights to it, but it could be made for syndication in the same way "P.D.Q". was.  NBC Productions could syndicated it, so that it would turn up around most of the country on CBS or ABC or Fox stations, but in the five top markets where there are NBC Owned stations, they would automatically get the exclusive rights to it.  

And NBC could ease into it by giving it a prime time summer tryout on the actual network.  That's more or less how WWTBAM progressed.  I can maybe picture Geoff Edwards hosting, Burton Richardson announcing, and having two "Random Cash" and one "Double Cash" space on the board, which would actually BE a board of video panels like Harrah's in the Bluffs.

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'DrJWJustice\' date=\'Dec 18 2003, 03:11 AM\']

Why not walk down the path again?  Only this time, let's get it right!  Pearson missed the essence of the show when they tried it in '98 (and let's not forget a near total lack of advertising).  Sure, our humor today is a bit more sultry than it was in the '70s, but I don't think the 'shock' value of answers like 'boobs' is the sole thing that kept us glued to the screen for nine years.  People tuned in to watch a half hour party on TV every morning.

Let me put it another way -- I've helped produce live versions of the program at three national Boy Scouts of America conferences.  The kids couldn't get enough, and we are talking about kids who barely out of diapers when the '90 version aired, let alone Gene's classic being long-since gone.

Point being, the show can work, but it needs the right atmosphere, the right chemistry among the celebs and the right type of humor.  Granted, that's far easier said than done, but I do think it's worth a go. [/quote]
 We can only hope that a new MG would have half the fun of Rayburn's 70s version. THe 1998 version certainly lacked a good panel. Maybe whichever of the Boy or Girl Scouts of the town in Texas JW is associated with that have the biggest comedic show biz aspirations could be the new panel 10 or 15 years down the road, and JW will still be young enough in whomever's eyes to host

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'DjohnsonCB\' date=\'Dec 18 2003, 04:44 PM\'] The probable refusal of the major networks to return to game shows en masse makes it sound like there would be no chance for a possible "Concentration" revival since NBC may hold the rights to it, but it could be made for syndication in the same way "P.D.Q". was.  NBC Productions could syndicated it, so that it would turn up around most of the country on CBS or ABC or Fox stations, but in the five top markets where there are NBC Owned stations, they would automatically get the exclusive rights to it.  

 [/quote]
 'Twould be nice to see a new COncentration on some channel's lineup. It was reported in mid-2002 over at Usenet that Classic Concentration(under NBC's Production arm) was under some consideration as a possible syndicated entry last season or this season