House Rules

[catkins522]

Is "House Rules", 13 week series where 3 teams competes from room to room and where the winner wins their dream house, a game show?

Charles

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'catkins522\' date=\'Dec 19 2003, 09:08 PM\'] Is "House Rules", 13 week series where 3 teams competes from room to room and where the winner wins their dream house, a game show?

Charles [/quote]
 Probably more reality-inclined than a traditional game show

[Kevin Prather]

[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Dec 19 2003, 09:10 PM\'] [quote name=\'catkins522\' date=\'Dec 19 2003, 09:08 PM\'] Is "House Rules", 13 week series where 3 teams competes from room to room and where the winner wins their dream house, a game show?

Charles [/quote]
Probably more reality-inclined than a traditional game show [/quote]
 Therefore, no. If we counted House Rules as a game show, we'd have to count Survivor, The Mole, ElimiDate, and all that stuff as game shows too. And clearly, that's not an option.

[starcade]

As a result, I _WOULD_ count all of the above except the date-u-mentaries on syndie...

It's a bonafide competition of skill or chance for a certain prize.  Ergo, it's a game show.

(That's why I raise quite a stink about Survivor.)

I guess I would ask the following:  How would Survivor, in a legal sense or otherwise, not be a game show without questioning it's bonafide-ness?

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'starcade\' date=\'Dec 20 2003, 11:27 AM\'] It's a bonafide competition of skill or chance for a certain prize.  Ergo, it's a game show.
 [/quote]
The Super Bowl. Cash money is given to the players on the winning team.

"Ah, you can't count sports."

I don't see why not, they too are "bonafide competitions of skill or chance", but, if you must:

That Scrabble tournament on ESPN. Or a Putt-Putt tournament.

Celebrity Poker Showdown.

You will NEVER be able to come up with a definition that I or someone else will not be able to find an exception to fit.

[dickoon]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Dec 20 2003, 09:54 PM\'] You will NEVER be able to come up with a definition that I or someone else will not be able to find an exception to fit. [/quote]
 I believe you, but that's not to say that it isn't worth spending time on the issue anyhow.

One factor which may be relevant is whether the game would take place or not if it weren't going to be broadcast. The Superbowl and the NFL may be dependent on TV money, but the overall championship game would take place even if it weren't to be televised for some reason, thus it falls on the sport side of the line. While celebrities play poker against one another on a regular basis, those particular games of poker would not take place were it not for the cameras, thus it falls on the game show side of the line.

There are, indeed, some weird outliers. Even I can't work out whether Slamball is a sport show or a game show. (Hey, it got a second series, which is more than many good things in this world.) Currently I suppose it's a game show but if people really do start playing Slamball off-TV and the TV coverage reflects this then it becomes a sport show. The concept of a show being able to change from a sport show to a game show or vice versa is just plain weird.

Mind you, I happily and proudly admit to being a self-confessed game show liberal thoroughly welcoming diversity among the world of game shows (though without necessarily having to enjoy them all) and would like to go round calling some of you traditionalist conservatives in the most pejorative senses of the terms.

Bah humbug,
Chris

[chris319]

Dickoon puts an interesting spin on this discussion. Many game shows are derived from existing sports or casino games, in which case the game from which the TV version is derived would not be considered a "game show" and the TV derivative would be considered a "game show", viz.:

Hangman - parlor game
Wheel of Fortune - game show
Scrabble (TV version) - game show
$1M Chance of a Lifetime - game show

Charades - parlor game
Masquerade Party - game show
Showoffs - game show
Body Language - game show

Concentration - card game
Concentration (TV version) - game show

Miniature Golf - sport (sort of)
Hole In One or Two - Game Show element

In all of the above examples the original predates the TV version. Password comes to mind as a game which existed first on TV, then became a somewhat popular parlor game.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'dickoon\' date=\'Dec 20 2003, 05:27 PM\'] I believe you, but that's not to say that it isn't worth spending time on the issue anyhow. [/quote]
 By all means.

There are, indeed, some weird outliers. Even I can't work out whether Slamball is a sport show or a game show. (Hey, it got a second series, which is more than many good things in this world.) Currently I suppose it's a game show but if people really do start playing Slamball off-TV and the TV coverage reflects this then it becomes a sport show.

Well, there _are_ games that see minimal TV time, in the form of a quick highlight wrapup during halftime of the feature game, and they WERE played for an audience besides that of the TV taping (I presume), but certainly your point is very well taken, and an interesting one.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'starcade\' date=\'Dec 20 2003, 02:27 PM\'] I guess I would ask the following:  How would Survivor, in a legal sense or otherwise, not be a game show without questioning it's bonafide-ness? [/quote]
 Keep in mind that there's a huge difference between our periodic arguments and any kind of legal challenge about what is or is not a game show.  Burnett has simply stated that his show is not a game show and therefore shouldn't be bound by the rules covering game shows.  So far, to the best of my knowledge, there's been no legal test of that claim, simply threats of lawsuits.

Still between Burnett and CBS, I'm sure they can find enough smart lawyers to make a convincing case that Survivor is a tremendously different form of television than the studio-bound question-and-answer games that the regulations of the early 1960s were designed to cover.  One of Steve Beverly's pet causes is to rally the FCC into updating their language to include the so-called "reality" shows.  It doesn't appear to be a pressing concern.

[Jay Temple]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Dec 20 2003, 06:48 PM\'] Dickoon puts an interesting spin on this discussion. Many game shows are derived from existing sports or casino games, in which case the game from which the TV version is derived would not be considered a "game show" and the TV derivative would be considered a "game show", viz.:

Hangman - parlor game
Wheel of Fortune - game show

Charades - parlor game
Masquerade Party - game show

Concentration - card game
Concentration (TV version) - game show

In all of the above examples the original predates the TV version. [/quote]
 You didn't mention the first one that came to my mind:  Blackjack (casino game) becomes Gambit (game show).

Here's a functional definition for distinguishing between a televised sport and a game show:  If newspaper coverage is found primarily in the sports section, it's a sport.  If coverage is found primarily in the TV section, it's a game show.  (To give you an idea of how enigmatic Survivor is, my local newspaper covers it in the celebrity news section.)

[uncamark]

I found Chris C.'s view that a game show is a contest that isn't decided by some form of judging an interesting way of looking at it.  By that view, although "Survivor" wouldn't be considered a game show (contestants elminated and winner chosen by contestant vote), "The Mole" could be (whoever consistently gets the most questions right on the exit quizzes wins, since they supposedly know who the Mole is).  "The Amazing Race" could also be considered a game show (whoever arrives at the finish line first wins).  And "Fear Factor" is very much a game show, since there's no judging involved--whoever completes the stunts faster than their opponents (or completes the stunts period) wins.

Since the show in question, "House Rules," has an online poll of the home audience determine the winner (or what we could call judging), it would not be strictly speaking by Chris' view a game show.

Your mileage may vary and this whole thing will probably never be totally satisfied to everyone's liking.

[Jimmy Owen]

My rule of thumb has always been:  Fee plugs-game show.  No fee plugs, not a game show.

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Dec 22 2003, 04:33 PM\']My rule of thumb has always been:  Fee plugs-game show.  No fee plugs, not a game show.[/quote]
Which makes "Russian Roulette," "Friend or Foe?", both versions of "Twenty-One" (and many other 50s shows) and some cable or other shows that don't come to mind immediately--and *all* British series--not game shows.  (Even "WWTBAM," but you could say that the AT&T mention and Meredith's current Capital One mentions are fee plugs.)

[Jimmy Owen]

That is correct, Mark.

[catkins522]

Since the show in question, "House Rules," has an online poll of the home audience determine the winner (or what we could call judging), it would not be strictly speaking by Chris' view a game show.

Not so fast, for the final week, they did have an online poll.  However, weeks 2-12, they were judged by 3 people (construction guy, real estate guy, and an interior designer woman).  They would rate 3 subcatergories to give them a total 30 points.  Then, a person will take the judging and divide them by 3.  The max. points is 31.0 points (Halfway, the team recieved 1 bonus point.)  The week's winner recieved a prize (vacation, SUV, all of the tools, 52" TV, ect.).

So, week 2-12 is a game show, while week 13 is a reality show?

Charles