Hollywood Squares apparently is canceled.....

[Dbacksfan12]

[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\'] [quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 01:59 PM\']I had thought Disney owned KCAL.  Or am I off base for the 478th time?[/quote]
From what I heard, Disney used to own KCAL, but they sold it a number of years ago;  I'd say it was probably around the time they bought ABC -- that would've given them channels 7 and 9 in L.A., and IIRC, at that time it was still a no-no for a major network (KCAL would've become an ABC O&O through the aforementioned merger) to own two stations in one market.

To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled!  Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings!  I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
I think you've made your damn point by now.  Will you stop with the unnecessary underlining, boldfacing, and capital letters?

Also, to further dispute your point, "Tattletales" syndicated version was just as good as its daytime counterpart.  Should "Tattletales" have stuck around?  Probably not, the ratings were more than likely mediocre, and the syndicator and/or Goodson-Todman didn't see any reason to continue with the project.

Furthermore, why would you cancel two of the top 15 shows in syndication, for a show that, AFAIK, isn't even in the top 40?  That's the most ridiculous prospect I've heard--since Henke proposed a NASCAR trivia game for national syndication.  Get over it, Thad.  The show is cancelled.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 03:43 PM\'] To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled!  Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings!  I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
 Always nice to see our members take the time to learn how to use the code buttons.

[SplitSecond]

I don't think those are the only buttons he learned to push.

[gameshowguy2000]

[quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:55 AM\']

And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....

I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings!

No, as others have pointed out, the show's fate was pretty much sealed after the CBS O&Os announced plans to carry that ET spinoff show starting next fall.

And if anything, the 2-out-of-3 match format helped the show, not hurt it...made for faster gameplay, combined w/the dumping of those time-consuming "Behind the Squares" bumpers going into breaks.

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").

I'm not, I repeat, I AM NOT the Cliff-Hangers kind of guy. I'm the Open-Ended kind of guy. AAMOF, the past 5 seasons had 100% Open-Ended shows.

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 04:46 PM\'] [quote name=\'ChuckNet\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 10:55 AM\']

And this all stems from its rule changes, I assume....

I knew that going to a "Best 2-out-of-3" idea was gonna hurt the show's ratings!

No, as others have pointed out, the show's fate was pretty much sealed after the CBS O&Os announced plans to carry that ET spinoff show starting next fall.

And if anything, the 2-out-of-3 match format helped the show, not hurt it...made for faster gameplay, combined w/the dumping of those time-consuming "Behind the Squares" bumpers going into breaks.

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby") [/quote]
Here's what I think is the problem with the current format: When you go to a best 2-out-of-3 format, it may make for faster game play and it may help the show's ratings, but that leads to something many of us like to call "Cliff-Hangers" (as in "To Be Continued....").

I'm not, I repeat, I AM NOT the Cliff-Hangers kind of guy. I'm the Open-Ended kind of guy. AAMOF, the past 5 seasons had 100% Open-Ended shows. [/quote]
 I understand where you're coming from. Personally, I'd like to see at least one bonus round played per episode, but that's just me. However, the "TO BE CONTINUED" factor adds something major for game shows: suspense. With that, you're making viewers wait another 24 hours to see if the contestant will be able to go for it all the next day, which is one reason I loved the straddles on ABC Millionaire, esp. when it was before a million dollar or high stakes question.  I know that's a serious exaggeration, but you get where I'm coming from.

As I said earlier, I think the 2/3 rule was a very good idea, being the game dragged miserably, and I think that's what led to the ratings dwindle. How many times can you watch the same two people play a game of tic-tac-toe and it still remain exciting? And you can see the producers tried their best to fill in the time, i.e. "Behind the Squares," longer bonus rounds, etc, and it still didn't do too much. Honestly, most of the self-contained matches were anti-climatic when a contestant hit $4,000 (winning 3 games). H2 is one of those shows where being self-contained is unnecessary (is Lingo another?).

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'gameshowguy2000\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:46 PM\'] I'm not, I repeat, I AM NOT the Cliff-Hangers kind of guy. I'm the Open-Ended kind of guy. AAMOF, the past 5 seasons had 100% Open-Ended shows. [/quote]
 Is that so? I never would have known.

(You need to clean up your terminology here. We refer to the practice of a match spreading over more than one show as "straddling", and to call a show that does not do that "open-ended" is pretty much the exact opposite of what you mean. Try "self-contained."

Oh, and expect to get a fair amount of crap for that, since marching in here and saying "Ya know, I like game shows that are self-contained better than shows that straddle" is roughly equal to saying "You know, Patrick Wayne should get the TPiR gig once Barker retires! He was GOOD on TTD '90!" That's not to say you're not ENTITLED to that opinion, but I don't see very many people agreeing with it.)

[Thad Dixon]

[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:55 PM\'][quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\']
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled!  Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings!  I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country.  [/quote]

NO, I WOULD NOT!  I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!

Do the show regardless of cost? They've already scaled down the bonus round prizes...instead of a $20,000 car, you now play for a $10,000 vacation on the first try. Second try is $10,000 cash instead of $25,000. At this rate, by next season, we'd have a bargain-basement H2, where the car offered is a Kia Rio.

That's what you think!  I envision a seventh season of H2 going like this:

Matches are still straddled, but now use a Password Plus-style scoring system:  up to four games per match with the first two games worth $1,000 each and the third and fourth games worth $2,000 each;  the second $1,000 game of each match is still a Secret Square game, with the progressive jackpot from seasons 2-5 reinstated;  first player to amass $3,000 or more wins the match and plays the bonus round.

In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000!  
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000!  
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth $100,000!!!

A bit like what it was in season 5, except this time there is no vacation involved.  And yes, you could get more than one crack at the $100K this time;  that's because, just like Jeopardy! started doing this season, contestants would no longer have to retire after winning five matches;  they could keep right on playing as long as they keep winning!  THE SKY'S THE LIMIT ON H2 AND JEOPARDY!

Also, I hate to bear bad news, but I don't think King World will touch Oprah or Dr. Phil, considering they're the two highest-rated talk shows. I don't watch neither one, but I know a hit show when I see it.

In 1976, another game show that used nine celebrities and had a host named Tom, got high ratings yet it got the ax after all of 15 weeks.  Has any talk show in TV history ever met a similar fate?  Oprah and Dr. Phil would be the first two, if not.  If King World would rather see them stay on, however, I can only think of one other way to cover production costs on H2:  sell the syndication rights for Oprah and Dr. Phil to another syndicator and do it for a whole heap of money!

[rugrats1]

I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season!

With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country.

In my opinion, renewing H2 is a good idea, but sacrifying King World's cash cows isn't a good idea.

If KW did cancel Oprah and/or Dr. Phil, just to keep H2 on the air, chances are that Tom Bergeron and, maybe, Peter Marshall would get death threats from Oprah or Dr. Phil viewers.

[tyshaun1]

[quote name=\'rugrats1\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:36 PM\']

I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season!

With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country.

In my opinion, renewing H2 is a good idea, but sacrifying King World's cash cows isn't a good idea.

If KW did cancel Oprah and/or Dr. Phil, just to keep H2 on the air, chances are that Tom Bergeron and, maybe, Peter Marshall would get death threats from Oprah or Dr. Phil viewers. [/quote]
 BTW, Dr. Phil is distributed by Paramount, not King World.

Unfortunately, in the Lexington market, HS hasn't been seen in 3 years, going back to Whoopi's last season. So I can't comment on it's quality, but personally, most games which rely on celebrities are not my cup of tea (Pyramid included). I think H2 is just another show that has run its course.

Tyshaun

[MikeK]

[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:36 PM\'] NO, I WOULD NOT!  I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office! [/quote]
Your picture would be used as the target of a dartboard by your station's ownership.

I envision a seventh season of H2 going like this:

Matches are still straddled, but now use a Password Plus-style scoring system:  up to four games per match with the first two games worth $1,000 each and the third and fourth games worth $2,000 each;  the second $1,000 game of each match is still a Secret Square game, with the progressive jackpot from seasons 2-5 reinstated;  first player to amass $3,000 or more wins the match and plays the bonus round.

In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000! 
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000! 
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth......

$100,000!!![/b]

Another case of "let's toss all the money in the world at a show and it'll fix itself" AKA Dixon's Game Theory.

In 1976, another game show that used nine celebrities and had a host named Tom, got high ratings yet it got the ax after all of 15 weeks.  Has any talk show in TV history ever met a similar fate?  Oprah and Dr. Phil would be the first two, if not.  If King World would rather see them stay on, however, I can only think of one other way to cover production costs on H2:  sell the syndication rights for Oprah and Dr. Phil to another syndicator and do it for a whole heap of money!

You want to be in the TV biz yet you know nothing about it.

Oprah and Dr. Phil are cash cows for their respective syndicators.  Why sacrifice any highly rated shows for a show which has been sagging in ratings for 2 or 3 seasons?  If KW sold the syndication rights to Oprah to salvage H2, they would be chastized more than we're chastizing you for your insane ideas.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 04:36 PM\'] NO, I WOULD NOT!  I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!
 [/quote]
 Now you're simply insane.

In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000! 
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000! 
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth......

$100,000!!![/b]

And you plan to pay for this by selling off your two biggest cash cows.

Tell me one thing, and answer me seriously, and use your head when you think about this:

WHY IN THE BLUE HELL SHOULD KING WORLD DO THAT?

Let's see, I can either keep the two shows on the air that are making buttloads of money for me, or I can sell them off and take a gamble on a game show that isn't even pulling threes.

Now, c'mon. use your head and tell me what possible business gain King World stands to make from that.

[joshg]

NO, I WOULD NOT! I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!

...and I thought LA was the land of fantasy. As I'm sure the members of this board (and you know who you are) who actually *work* on H2 want the show to go on, reality (not the kind on TV, mind you) sets in and shows get cancelled all the time in this town. I was working on a non-game show that was cancelled before it even aired. Top That!

I remember the anger I felt when CBS cancelled "Now You See It" and NBC got rid of "Classic Concentration". I was a younger person and at the time it didn't make sense to me. "Why did they cancel my favorite game" I would keep asking myself. Instead of moping about it and wearing all black, I went on with my life, got my driver's license and discovered girls! (That's another game show in and of itself)

We all have feelings... it's the way we convey them that makes it interesting.

To all at Hollywood Squares: Thank you for six years.

JOSH

[Dbacksfan12]

[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 06:36 PM\'] [quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:55 PM\'][quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\']
To get this thread back on its original topic, I STILL say H2 should be renewed instead of cancelled!  Unlike Davidson's version and the MG/HS Hour, it is AS GOOD AS the Marshall original, so it should be allowed to stick around for AT LEAST AS LONG AS the Marshall original did, regardless of cost AND ratings!  I would rather they cancel Oprah and Dr. Phil instead, then take all the money they've made off of those shows, and put it into the budget for H2 next season! [/quote]
With a theory like that, you'd be laughed out of every TV executive's office in this country.  [/quote]

NO, I WOULD NOT!  I would be doing so very well every TV executive in the country would start to worship me and put up a picture of me somewhere in their office!

Do the show regardless of cost? They've already scaled down the bonus round prizes...instead of a $20,000 car, you now play for a $10,000 vacation on the first try. Second try is $10,000 cash instead of $25,000. At this rate, by next season, we'd have a bargain-basement H2, where the car offered is a Kia Rio.

That's what you think!  I envision a seventh season of H2 going like this:

Matches are still straddled, but now use a Password Plus-style scoring system:  up to four games per match with the first two games worth $1,000 each and the third and fourth games worth $2,000 each;  the second $1,000 game of each match is still a Secret Square game, with the progressive jackpot from seasons 2-5 reinstated;  first player to amass $3,000 or more wins the match and plays the bonus round.

In your first crack at the bonus round, you once again play for a $20,000+ car!
If won, your next crack is worth $25,000 in cash once again!
If won that time, your next crack after that is worth $50,000!  
If you win on that level, then it's on to $75,000!  
And then, once you win that amount, every crack you get after that is worth......

$100,000!!![/b]

A bit like what it was in season 5, except this time there is no vacation involved.  And yes, you could get more than one crack at the $100K this time;  that's because, just like Jeopardy! started doing this season, contestants would no longer have to retire after winning five matches;  they could keep right on playing as long as they keep winning!  THE SKY'S THE LIMIT ON H2 AND JEOPARDY!

Also, I hate to bear bad news, but I don't think King World will touch Oprah or Dr. Phil, considering they're the two highest-rated talk shows. I don't watch neither one, but I know a hit show when I see it.

In 1976, another game show that used nine celebrities and had a host named Tom, got high ratings yet it got the ax after all of 15 weeks.  Has any talk show in TV history ever met a similar fate?  Oprah and Dr. Phil would be the first two, if not.  If King World would rather see them stay on, however, I can only think of one other way to cover production costs on H2:  sell the syndication rights for Oprah and Dr. Phil to another syndicator and do it for a whole heap of money! [/quote]
 Thad, Thad, Thad.
Your only burying yourself deeper and deeper, and simply showing a higher level of incompetence by using the various font tags.  A huge "$100,000" graphic takes the cake though...that's the largest text I've seen on this board.

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'Thad Dixon\' date=\'Jan 13 2004, 02:43 PM\'] From what I heard, Disney used to own KCAL, but they sold it a number of years ago;  I'd say it was probably around the time they bought ABC -- that would've given them channels 7 and 9 in L.A., and IIRC, at that time it was still a no-no for a major network (KCAL would've become an ABC O&O through the aforementioned merger) to own two stations in one market. [/quote]
 For once, Thad, you got something right: Disney sold KCAL not long after buying ABC.  KCAL was sold to Young Broadcasting, which -- after the rules changed to allow duopolies -- then turned around and sold it to Viacom, the current owner.

Unfortunately, that's the only thing you've managed to get right in this entire thread.  I won't rehash the myriad of other massive errors you've made regarding H2 and/or the way the TV business works, but I do have to ask one thing.  We know you'd pre-empt news, dating shows, Dr. Phil, Oprah, and probably half a dozen other shows for game shows.  Were you to run a TV station, is there any show -- any show at all, of any genre -- that you would consider to be more important than game shows?

(To everyone else reading this: I know curiosity killed the cat.  Shut up. :-)

 - David

[JMFabiano]

Not that I like to use the death of a beloved show to further my cause, but NOW can we have Caroline on one last time?  And I think even I sound tame compared to some of the other posts ;-)