Karen Valentine on HS

[thomas_meighan]

I've been reading Adam Nedeff's marvelous new book The Matchless Gene Rayburn and was particularly fascinated by the sections describing the relationship (to the degree there was one) between MG and HS. Orson Bean's observation that MG didn't usually book the HS regulars and semi-regulars is borne out by comparing the celebrity listings for the two shows. (I can think of a few exceptions who did both regularly, like Marcia Wallace, McLean Stevenson and Jimmie Walker.)

That brings me to Karen Valentine, who appeared on at least 164 daytime weeks of HS from 1970-1977, but never on MG -- nor, as far as I can recall, on any other G-T game show.* She did participate on other game shows; Wiki says she was on The Dating Game and was the "Resident Dream Girl" on Dream Girl of ’67. The IMDB notes appearances on It Takes Two, Stump the Stars and Baffle. She was also on at least one week of Amateur’s Guide to Love, as indicated by a photo in Matchless. Does anyone know of other game show appearances for her? (Or, for that matter, why she stopped doing HS?)

*Not even ABC Password, as far as the available listings show, in spite of being on ABC's Room 222 at the time. And that version of Password did attract some celebs who otherwise didn't appear on the West Coast G-T shows very much, like Peter Lawford, Florence Henderson, Sandy Duncan and even Paul Lynde.

[calliaume]

Peter Marshall's book confirms Hollywood Squares regulars didn't usually appear on G-T shows, and vice versa.  Abby Dalton was a semi-regular on Squares for years, but was frozen out after appear on another production company's show.  There were exceptions to this rule - Paul Lynde did a week of ABC Password opposite Elizabeth Montgomery - but they were few and far between.

Karen Valentine made a lot of Squares appearances - she was well liked by the production company, and by Paul Lynde.

Am I imagining this, or did Walker and Stevenson only appear on the nighttime Squares during the early 1970s? 

[thomas_meighan]

Am I imagining this, or did Walker and Stevenson only appear on the nighttime Squares during the early 1970s?

Stevenson did 48 daytime weeks from 1973-80 (including the hour-long November 3-7, 1975 week where stars often appeared only for part of an episode). Walker did 38 daytime weeks from 1975-80.

Information (along with that in my OP) from http://www.classicsquares.com/.
(And I'm mighty glad for Ctrl+F....)

And I did find the reason why Karen stopped doing HS. In an interview with Ruth Thompson (published in the Nashua Telegraph of November 8, 1980 and probably elsewhere), she said "I enjoyed the show thoroughly but I was reinforcing a single image and it wasn't helping my being taken seriously as an actress."

[calliaume]

Stevenson did 48 daytime weeks from 1973-80 (including the hour-long November 3-7, 1975 week where stars often appeared only for part of an episode). Walker did 38 daytime weeks from 1975-80.

And I did find the reason why Karen stopped doing HS. In an interview with Ruth Thompson (published in the Nashua Telegraph of November 8, 1980 and probably elsewhere), she said "I enjoyed the show thoroughly but I was reinforcing a single image and it wasn't helping my being taken seriously as an actress."

It doesn't look like Stevenson's appearances on the two series overlapped very much - he apparently did two weeks of Match Game in 1973, and doesn't appear to have come back until the last year of the daily syndicated version.  He may have been doing Squares often enough that G-T didn't want him around, or he might have been more committed to Squares since he had an NBC contract for most of that time.

Walker appears to have done Match Game three times or so a year during the 1970s.  (Source:  http://www.gameshowfavorites.com/episodeguides/MatchGame/.)

And it makes sense that Valentine didn't want to do Squares for the reason named; unfortunately it didn't help her career much.  (It's hard to play the ingenue much beyond age 30.)  She might have done The Magnificent Marble Machine, which was the only other H-Q celebrity show between 1970 and 1977.

[SuperSweeper]

I find it interesting that Gene Rayburn did a lot of daytime Squares- and Peter Marshall did a few weeks of Match Game and Password Plus.  They must have not cared as much about the hosts...

[xavier45]

Stevenson did 48 daytime weeks from 1973-80 (including the hour-long November 3-7, 1975 week where stars often appeared only for part of an episode). Walker did 38 daytime weeks from 1975-80.

And I did find the reason why Karen stopped doing HS. In an interview with Ruth Thompson (published in the Nashua Telegraph of November 8, 1980 and probably elsewhere), she said "I enjoyed the show thoroughly but I was reinforcing a single image and it wasn't helping my being taken seriously as an actress."

It doesn't look like Stevenson's appearances on the two series overlapped very much - he apparently did two weeks of Match Game in 1973, and doesn't appear to have come back until the last year of the daily syndicated version.  He may have been doing Squares often enough that G-T didn't want him around, or he might have been more committed to Squares since he had an NBC contract for most of that time.

Walker appears to have done Match Game three times or so a year during the 1970s.  (Source:  http://www.gameshowfavorites.com/episodeguides/MatchGame/.)

I remember McLean appearing a couple times in 1974 and and again in '78.  Those are the only other times I can remember .

[Matt Ottinger]

I find it interesting that Gene Rayburn did a lot of daytime Squares- and Peter Marshall did a few weeks of Match Game and Password Plus.  They must have not cared as much about the hosts...

According to...some book I read, the two were fairly close.  Also, as hosts, they were in a greater position of power to tell their respective networks or production groups where to put their blacklists.

[Jimmy Owen]

Marcia Wallace seemed to be one star who could move all around the chessboard.  I think she did H-Q, G-T, B&E, Barris and Stewart and the indies.

[BillCullen1]

Marcia Wallace seemed to be one star who could move all around the chessboard.  I think she did H-Q, G-T, B&E, Barris and Stewart and the indies.

Yeah, add Ralph Edwards Productions for Marcia, as she was on Cross Wits with some regularity.

In addition to Password, Paul Lynde also apepared on The $10,000 Pyramid in January 1975.

[jimlangefan]

I find it interesting that Gene Rayburn did a lot of daytime Squares- and Peter Marshall did a few weeks of Match Game and Password Plus.  They must have not cared as much about the hosts...

According to...some book I read, the two were fairly close.  Also, as hosts, they were in a greater position of power to tell their respective networks or production groups where to put their blacklists.

I would say in the early years of Squares and before MG '73, that could have been because Gene was on the same network, and then later was an employee of Heatter-Quigley hosting "Amatuer's Guide To Love".

[calliaume]

According to...some book I read, the two were fairly close.  Also, as hosts, they were in a greater position of power to tell their respective networks or production groups where to put their blacklists.

I would say in the early years of Squares and before MG '73, that could have been because Gene was on the same network, and then later was an employee of Heatter-Quigley hosting "Amatuer's Guide To Love".

I checked Dixon Hayes' site, http://www.classicsquares.com/ - there's no celebrity list for 1966-1970, but I didn't see Rayburn listed among the 1971-1975 celebs.  I would think he only appeared while Match Game was on NBC; I doubt he appeared after that - he was primarily New York based (he made a lot of WML? and TTTT during the CBS MG run), so getting out to Los Angeles to appear on a competing production company's show on a competing network seems unlikely.  Marshall's book does confirm Rayburn was a celebrity guest at some point.

On the reverse end, I think Marshall only appeared on Match Game in the 1981-1982 season, by which time Squares was out of production.  The video isn't around anymore, but there's a charming show open with Rayburn sitting in Marshall's seat and Marshall walking out to host.

[thomas_meighan]

Gene did three daytime weeks of HS: 2-19-1968, 2-17-1969 and 6-9-1980. Celebrity listings for the early years are archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20080519035732/http://www.classicsquares.com/archive6670.html

Peter returned the favor by doing three weeks of MG: 7-14-1969, week 34 of 1979-80 and week 13 of 1980-81 (along with corresponding PM episodes for the latter two).

And here's something I hadn't noticed before: George Gobel did one week of MG in the 1981-82 season, in addition to two weeks of The MG-HS Hour in 1984.

[WarioBarker]

I checked Dixon Hayes' site, http://www.classicsquares.com/ - there's no celebrity list for 1966-1970,

Celebrity listings for the early years are archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20080519035732/http://www.classicsquares.com/archive6670.html

Okay, I'm confused -- the 1966-70 page is right here, no need for Internet Archive. Granted, you have to scroll down a bit to see the listings, but they're there.

[Matt Ottinger]

I checked Dixon Hayes' site, http://www.classicsquares.com/ - there's no celebrity list for 1966-1970,

Celebrity listings for the early years are archived at https://web.archive.org/web/20080519035732/http://www.classicsquares.com/archive6670.html

Okay, I'm confused -- the 1966-70 page is right here, no need for Internet Archive. Granted, you have to scroll down a bit to see the listings, but they're there.

I'm sorry you're confused.  Let me see if I can help.

Both links work.

Hope that helped.

[TimK2003]

Tom Poston was on Bud's "To Tell The Truth" a lot in the 60s, but by the 70's & 80s  he was seen more on the Heatter-Quigley stable of shows (HS/Battlestars/All Star Blitz,..) I want to say he still did a few appearances here and there on G/T shows, but I can't say for certain.