Cullen TPIR on Buzzr?

[jjman920]

So, do you suggest we ignore history? There's a saying about what that leads to. It has in the past and is currently doing so now.

I never said that it should be celebrated nor embraced. And no one is saying "WATCH BUZZR FOR THE USE OF THESE BANNED WORDS." Buzzr's not airing a promo saying, "We're airing these words you can't say anymore." No one is getting off because they can finally hear these words on a game show. I'm saying that it shouldn't be ignored or erased from history.

What WAS once normal no longer IS normal...there is much in our history that was once considered "normal" but that, by no means, suggests we should embrace it or celebrate it now...if you don't get how the insensitivity and bigotry of the past can still harm people in the present, that's on you...

History *is* painful. A lot of people did a lot of bad things and there's going to be pain in confronting those bad things. But confronting those things is important to keep them from happening again. It has hurt me to read about the things that have been done in the past, but it's also made me a better person for learning about them.

You mention "sweeping under the rug", well what do you think not mentioning or acknowledging it is doing?

Also, people don't know what the words are that are already there. Most people aren't us who recognize that these shows have already aired and can go back to see what they are. And most aren't going to look it up. So in the case of this instance on Price and the MG prompt on MGHS, people are simply left in the dark for an entire segment. And in the case of MGHS, it literally affects following along with the game.

This censoring may not seem important, and it mostly isn't in this context, but television is just as much of a record for history as film, music, literature or textbooks. And these gems airing certainly do count among those.

[JakeT]

So, do you suggest we ignore history? There's a saying about what that leads to. It has in the past and is currently doing so now.
<snip>
This censoring may not seem important, and it mostly isn't in this context, but television is just as much of a record for history as film, music, literature or textbooks. And these gems airing certainly do count among those.

Removing offensive material is NOT "ignoring history" and that has been one of the most bullshit arguments used by those determined to keep the celebration of bigotry alive in this country...

And, please...don't insult my or the intelligence of others by trying to treat a 30+ year old game show rerun like it's some masterpiece like the Mona Lisa or "Citizen Kane"...

JakeT

[Bryce L.]

People who look for reasons to be offended, will find them every damn time. And if they choose to see it that way, it's their own problem.

[PPatters]

People who look for reasons to be offended, will find them every damn time. And if they choose to see it that way, it's their own problem.

I know Little People, though, who hear that word and feel very attacked by it. This is a word that has been hurled at them to dehumanize them, to compare them to circus sideshows, and it’s hurtful because it’s a word meant to hurt. I don’t think disliking this word and hearing it on national television means that they’ll find a reason to be offended “every damn time,” nor do I see that as their problem. To feel a physical reaction, to be gutted by that word, I understand why someone would not want to hear it.

[JakeT]

People who look for reasons to be offended, will find them every damn time. And if they choose to see it that way, it's their own problem.

Spoken like the typical American racist/bigot...nice job...

JakeT

[Bryce L.]

People who look for reasons to be offended, will find them every damn time. And if they choose to see it that way, it's their own problem.

Spoken like the typical American racist/bigot...nice job...

JakeT

Takes one to know one.

[BrandonFG]

Y'know, this conversation actually has interesting points being made on both sides. But it's devolving very rapidly.

[jjman920]

Removing offensive material is NOT "ignoring history" and that has been one of the most bullshit arguments used by those determined to keep the celebration of bigotry alive in this country...

It's like you completely missed that "doomed to repeat it" reference I started my post out with.

Trust me, I don't want to keep bigotry alive in this country. I'm black and gay, and have faced years of depression from bullying and name calling. Social media's a cesspool and the White House is a garbage disposal. I know how words (and images) hurt just as much as you and many people on this board probably do.

I'm not saying let's keep the confederate monuments up in public, but I'm also not saying to destroy them. Museums exist to display them just like this network exists to show off Fremantle's vast library of game shows. Trying to learn is not celebrating anything. It's learning.

And, please...don't insult my or the intelligence of others by trying to treat a 30+ year old game show rerun like it's some masterpiece like the Mona Lisa or "Citizen Kane"...

I'm treating it like a piece of *history* because that what it is. Do not dismiss the value of game show reruns. I've learned *a lot* from them. Just like reruns of sitcoms, dramas, and archives of news footage and commercials, they have all captured a piece of time. A record of what references and social norms were like at that time. Seeing them has sparked a curiosity in me that inspired me to search and learn more about the people that appeared on them and references made. They actually *are* important, sometimes as the only audio-visual record of important things. Like Philo Farnsworth and the last surviving witness of Lincoln's assassination on IGAS or some of the transcendent guests on WML? And those are just a few examples I can think of. I'm sure others here can come up with more.

And some people on this site have dedicated considerable amounts of their time cataloging history through these game shows. And these things have served and do serve a probative value in knowing what the past was like. Don't insult those people.

[jjman920]

People who look for reasons to be offended, will find them every damn time. And if they choose to see it that way, it's their own problem.

I know Little People, though, who hear that word and feel very attacked by it. This is a word that has been hurled at them to dehumanize them, to compare them to circus sideshows, and it’s hurtful because it’s a word meant to hurt. I don’t think disliking this word and hearing it on national television means that they’ll find a reason to be offended “every damn time,” nor do I see that as their problem. To feel a physical reaction, to be gutted by that word, I understand why someone would not want to hear it.

And I think it's important to recognize the context in which it's presented. Like I said, history is *brutal.* So many bad things have happened to so many swaths of people who never deserved any of it. People simply trying to live their lives. I can understand if it is too painful for some people to face it all the time.

That's why a disclaimer would be a good idea. So, people aren't ambushed by things they aren't prepared for.

I'm not saying "nothing should be censored", but I do think that not everything should be censored.

[JakeT]

People who look for reasons to be offended, will find them every damn time. And if they choose to see it that way, it's their own problem.

Spoken like the typical American racist/bigot...nice job...

JakeT

Takes one to know one.

Congratulations for posting the most mature retort of 2019...

But, since you were so clever to make such an accusation, feel free to review years of my posts here, on Facebook and any other media/online platform and cite ANY examples you can find where I have demonstrated racism or bigotry...much of my life have been devoted to ENDING racism and bigotry so, before you make such an asinine statement, get your facts right...

And try to communicate beyond the level of a 12-year-old...

JakeT

[JakeT]

And some people on this site have dedicated considerable amounts of their time cataloging history through these game shows. And these things have served and do serve a probative value in knowing what the past was like. Don't insult those people.

It would be helpful if you had the slightest clue who you were talking to...back in the '90s, I had one of the world's largest, best-celebrated private game show video archives...many of the cataloguing formats used by many collectors originated from MY original catalog...I AM "those people"...

And "probative" value?  Now you've just moved into being total absurd...

JakeT

[JakeT]

Trust me, I don't want to keep bigotry alive in this country. I'm black and gay, and have faced years of depression from bullying and name calling. Social media's a cesspool and the White House is a garbage disposal. I know how words (and images) hurt just as much as you and many people on this board probably do.

So, then I would assume you would find it offensive, objectionable and worthy of censoring if someone were to use "n----- f-----" on some show because you are aware of the damaging effects of such ignorant hateful bigoted terms...

Then you should be aware that slurs that might not affect you DO harm others...they see them as bullying...they see them as dehumanizing...there is NO value in harmful slurs being aired just to please some purists when it can do demonstrable harm to others and when it most certainly does not do any actual damage to the product as a whole...

If they do what you ask and air harmful content just to please you, are you willing to provide whatever help that is needed to those it may have harmed?  For some, continued dehumanization leads to mental illness and even suicide...is hearing the word "m-----" THAT important to you?

I really don't have anymore more I can say to you on the subject...except that the fact that a doubly-marginalized person like yourself can't grasp the harm that such language does to others is incredibly disappointing to me...

JakeT

[jjman920]

I don't need to have a clue. If you're in the category I mentioned, then I'd think you'd see where I was coming from.

I literally laid out examples about why game shows/television have historical value. They're time capsules. And a lot of it wasn't saved until the 1980s. So, anything prior to that decade is, again, important to knowing what things were like back then.

I fail to understand how recording history is not probative. It literally acts a proof that something happened. That's literally the definition of the word.

But I'll go stand in the absurd section of the Paley Center.

EDIT: I'm sorry that my ability to disassociate the use of a word from 60 years ago against the use of the word now is confusing and disappointing to you. The Buzzr thing really doesn't matter that much to me besides losing the historical value. I'm not losing any sleep over it.

I don't know what else I could say. I'm not trying to celebrate the ugly parts of history. I'm not trying to rub it in people's faces. That's why I suggested a disclaimer. There are documentaries and museums that catalog history with the words and imagery far nastier that what Buzzr is bleeping out. Should those documentaries not air, should those museums not exist? Should the Holocaust be taken out of textbooks and not taught in schools?

I just don't want to see history erased. I'm sorry.

[JMFabiano]

I understand the tide is turning finally and the word is being considered a slur, but I believe that it should just be left in as a product of the time. I've felt that in seeing the Censored Eleven cartoons (and others with racial insensitivity) and the sitcoms of the 70's with uses of the N-word. It's a disservice to teaching why we shouldn't go back to what was normal. Air with a disclaimer if there's fear of major backlash.

Or, if that's not enough, maybe skip that one for the network, but upload it (uncensored) to the YouTube page (like they did with the Jim Hess episode of PYL).

Doesn't Buzzr skip the "Sicilian" episode of Password Plus for this reason?  Despite the muting/blacking out that NBC or GSN applied to the segment? 

I also heard speculation that this is why we haven't seen the premiere of MG/HS yet.  As two MG questions have punchlines that don't age well (one about a son who wants to grow up to be a girl, the other is the typical "tough" school question and leads to the punchline about kids playing with guns there).  Buzzr is usually honest about this sort of thing, have they said one way or the other? 

/Yet they keep the Liz Taylor questions, go fig.

[jjman920]

I understand the tide is turning finally and the word is being considered a slur, but I believe that it should just be left in as a product of the time. I've felt that in seeing the Censored Eleven cartoons (and others with racial insensitivity) and the sitcoms of the 70's with uses of the N-word. It's a disservice to teaching why we shouldn't go back to what was normal. Air with a disclaimer if there's fear of major backlash.

Or, if that's not enough, maybe skip that one for the network, but upload it (uncensored) to the YouTube page (like they did with the Jim Hess episode of PYL).

Doesn't Buzzr skip the "Sicilian" episode of Password Plus for this reason?  Despite the muting/blacking out that NBC or GSN applied to the segment? 

If they had, I don't think they did most recently. I'm pretty sure that came up a few weeks ago and I was confused for like a minute before I remember it already being censored before Buzzr aired it. I thought my stream had frozen because the shot was on the whole desk with no word on the front and no audio.

That was an instance where they realized it was wrong back then. Prompting Allen to make an apology on a later episode, correct?