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Author Topic: EGGCRATE READOUTS  (Read 35177 times)

uncamark

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EGGCRATE READOUTS
« Reply #45 on: February 09, 2004, 02:40:33 PM »
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 02:21 PM\']It wasn't all that long ago that the show's ubiquitous "ping" was created live in the stage right wings from the kind of chime that used to be heard pinging in department stores. There was a hot mic positioned near that eloctromechanical chime device that now rests at PPB (yes, Chris touched it!). It was triggered by a CBS staffer holding a button that resembled the handheld nurse's call button you might have at a hospital bed. Use your thumb to press the button once, and get a single ping. The easiest way to get the rapidly repeating pings heard when the winner of a one-bid is announced was NOT to try to get your thumb to quiver like an epileptic seizure, but to hold the button upside-down in your fist with the button protruding past your pinky finger and rapidly bang your fist on the countertop!

Now THAT was show business![/quote]
Something which the first SFX people on "MG" could not perfect--on the early shows, it's very noticeable--even when GSN puts it through compression--that the SFX people are not hitting that button all that much.  Instead of DINGDINGDINGDINGDING it's more like DING DING DING DING DING...

The champ of that was the game-win bell on "Password" in New York--the SFX man always seemed to be petering out near the end and would be late or dropped on the floor if Ludden was trying to hurry up--"Let'splayyourlightningroundONEMINUTE!"  But the bell was always there on cue.

SRIV94

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« Reply #46 on: February 09, 2004, 04:35:07 PM »
[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 01:40 PM\'] Something which the first SFX people on "MG" could not perfect--on the early shows, it's very noticeable--even when GSN puts it through compression--that the SFX people are not hitting that button all that much.  Instead of DINGDINGDINGDINGDING it's more like DING DING DING DING DING...
 [/quote]
Seems to me that it was a problem on TATTLETALES as well (of course, the 70s version used a slightly different bell [the sharper "C", for those musically inclined]--same one used on Eubanks CS and most of BODY LANGUAGE's run).  I don't recall whether it was ever corrected for the later episodes.

The 80s version used a completely different bell and I don't believe ever had that problem (my memory's gettin so hazy nowadays).

Doug
« Last Edit: February 09, 2004, 04:37:10 PM by SRIV94 »
Doug
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"When you see the crawl at the end of the show you will see a group of talented people who will all be moving over to other shows...the cameramen aren't are on that list, but they're not talented people."  John Davidson, TIME MACHINE (4/26/85)

daveromanjr

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« Reply #47 on: February 09, 2004, 05:15:51 PM »
The Perry CS ping sounds very similar to the PiR ping and I remember the ping going so fast you just heard the note, not the ping when somebody won.  Is that the same "ping" as PiR?

SRIV94

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« Reply #48 on: February 09, 2004, 05:56:14 PM »
[quote name=\'daveromanjr\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 04:15 PM\'] The Perry CS ping sounds very similar to the PiR ping and I remember the ping going so fast you just heard the note, not the ping when somebody won.  Is that the same "ping" as PiR? [/quote]
 No.  The two bells (or pings) are entirely different.

Doug
Doug
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"When you see the crawl at the end of the show you will see a group of talented people who will all be moving over to other shows...the cameramen aren't are on that list, but they're not talented people."  John Davidson, TIME MACHINE (4/26/85)

WorldClassRob

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« Reply #49 on: February 09, 2004, 09:36:27 PM »
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 7 2004, 10:09 PM\'] [quote name=\'Chief-O\' date=\'Feb 7 2004, 06:24 PM\'] I found a cool picture of what is represented as CBS SFX equipment here:
http://www.earthsignals.com/Collins/0038/0016_1.jpg [/quote]
Hot damn! That photo is taken near one corner of the large storeroom at Pacific Pioneer Broadcasters where the assorted "junk" not on display at the humble museum is stored. Amazing that you would find some of the exact items I was referencing. PPB is a membership-only organization for its members and their personal guests; I didn't know anyone had taken pictures in our back rooms.

You're looking at a small sample of those former CBS items mentioned earlier in this thread. The big bell in the center of the picture is still marked as having been used on the show "Whew". Both the item with the large chain at the top left and the device with gears nearer the top right were among the items used on that recurring Jack Benny vault bit. And yes, a couple of electric chimes and/or buzzers are visible as well.

A wider shot would show many more chimes and doorbells, as well as buzzers, plus another couple of dozen other practical sfx devices. They run the gamut from car horns to household doors on hinges, to windows and venetian blinds, to car doors and a whole lot more. And yes, like the bell from "Whew", others are clearly identifiable as having been used on CBS game shows.

To earn more about this wonderful organization:
Pacific Pioneer Broadcasters

And here's something to look forward to. On your 20th anniversary of having been employed in commercial radio and/or TV you qualify for membership.   ;-)


Randy
tvrandywest.com [/quote]
 Randy, does NBC still have their own bells/buzzers/effects at their studios (e.g. game shows like Scrabble, Hit Man, $ale of the Century, etc.), or is this equipment stored at Pacific Pioneer Broadcasters like the other sound effect equipment?

Thanks.

Regarding the $ on the Money Cards of Card Sharks, the $ is a cardboard-type piece that was placed on the scoreboard about half-way through its run.  In the past there was no $ sign whatsoever and didn't even look like the $ sign that you would normally see on a game show.

tvmitch

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« Reply #50 on: February 09, 2004, 10:48:35 PM »
Fascinating topic, everyone.

A question I bet some other folks want to know: where are places to buy any of these displays, especially the vane displays? Where do the people who run marathons buy the giant vane display clocks they use?
You should follow me on Twitter

tvrandywest

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« Reply #51 on: February 09, 2004, 11:34:11 PM »
[quote name=\'WorldClassRob\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 06:36 PM\'] Randy, does NBC still have their own bells/buzzers/effects at their studios (e.g. game shows like Scrabble, Hit Man, $ale of the Century, etc.), or is this equipment stored at Pacific Pioneer Broadcasters like the other sound effect equipment? [/quote]
Sadly, NBC's Sound Effects Department in Burbank was finally shuttered with the beginning of the new millenium. And it was a sad day indeed.

Since construction of the Burbank facility in 1952, NBC's sfx department had its home in a deep and narrow pair of rooms just 25 feet from Studio 1 (Bob Hope, Johnny Carson, etc.). For those who roamed the halls, it was between the "Supermarket Sweep" 2000 / 2001 production offices and the ladies room.  There resided the history of broadcasting sfx in various incarnations:

1. Many of the practical effects from the golden days of NBC radio, moved from Sunset and Vine in the 1950s (coconut halves for hooses' hoofs, slide whistles, etc., etc.).

2. An extensive library of over 100 78rpm discs containing every imaginable sound - the official NBC library of sounds. I was told that some were from the respected BBC library, and others recorded and compiled by NBC over the years. Each disc had an NBC label. I believe these were "lock groove" discs - each cut ending with a continuous groove that stopped the needle from proceeding to the next cut on the disc - to simplify playback "live" during programs.

3. A small assortment of surviving chime, doorbell and buzzer devices.

4. On one wall of shelves were over 1,000 MacKenzie loops stored in hundreds of clear plastic trays. Many of the trays still bearing the names of individual game shows taped at NBC Burbank (WOF, Hot Potato, Battlestars, etc.), each tray still holding the loops from those shows. Other trays were labelled with descriptive words such as "car effects".

5. On the opposite wall of shelves were hundreds of reels of quarter-inch tapes. Most were labelled with NBC show names including individual game shows, as well as "Bob Hope ", "Peacock Chimes", etc. (remember, this was the sfx department; the music department was elsewhere).

6. Only a handful of NAB tape cartridges (NBC never invested heavily in the format - the only cart machines still on the premises were in the basement editing and sweetening suites).

7. Finally, about a dozen commercial sfx CDs

Hardware included two turtables, one reel-to-reel machine, several MacKenzie 5-decks, 2 DAT machines, and a small audio setup with a board and various rack mounted black-boxes (Dolby, compression, reverb, oscilloscope, etc., etc.).

The whole operation was pretty well unwound since most NBC shows were produced at outside facilities and many of the game and talk shows inhabiting the studios were from outside production companies. The occasional sfx needs of "The Tonight Show" and "Days of Our Lives" were handled by the shows' individual audio crews. Sound effects for promos were added in the state-of-the-art audio suites in the basement. Curiously, there was a rack of about 50 NAB carts with old effects and a small library of sfx CDs in that suite.

Of the three or four game shows on the lot around that time, most were just renting facilities (Sweep, FF, TTTT) and "Weakest Link" came from Britain with its own music and sounds. Of the final 2 employees who manned that room one was reassigned and the other offered a retirement package when the department was finally closed. One of those employees was sufficiently disgruntled with the situation that he allowed me about an hour to load and play MacKenzie loops while a DAT machine rolled in record mode. I have yet to load, edit and burn CDs from the 2 DATS.

Much of the hardware remained intact when the rear room was outfitted with an on-line Avid editing suite first used to handle the overflow editing needs of simultaneous network and syndie "Weakest Link" production. At last visit only the remaining plaque on the door reading "Sound Effects" held a clue of what was housed behind that door for almost 50 years.


Randy
tvrandywest.com
« Last Edit: February 10, 2004, 11:37:40 AM by tvrandywest »
The story behind the voice you know and love... the voice of a generation of game shows: Johnny Olson!

Celebrate the centennial of the America's favorite announcer with "Johnny Olson: A Voice in Time."

Preview the book free: click "Johnny O Tribute" http://www.tvrandywest.com

chris319

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« Reply #52 on: February 10, 2004, 11:23:20 AM »
Quote
One of those employees was sufficiently disgruntled with the situation that he allowed me about an hour to load and play MacKenzie loops while a DAT machine rolled in record mode. I have yet to load, edit and burn CDs from the 2 DATS.
The retired one, I presume.

What SFX did you get? I'm thinking HS' "tacky buzzer" and Beulah are in there somewhere.

SRIV94

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« Reply #53 on: February 10, 2004, 11:53:39 AM »
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Feb 9 2004, 10:34 PM\'] 4. On one wall of shelves were over 1,000 MacKenzie loops stored in hundreds of clear plastic trays. Many of the trays still bearing the names of individual game shows taped at NBC Burbank (WOF, Hot Potato, Battlestars, etc.), each tray still holding the loops from those shows. Other trays were labelled with descriptive words such as "car effects".
 [/quote]
 Just out of curiosity, would these include the audience reaction effects as well?

Doug
Doug
----------------------------------------
"When you see the crawl at the end of the show you will see a group of talented people who will all be moving over to other shows...the cameramen aren't are on that list, but they're not talented people."  John Davidson, TIME MACHINE (4/26/85)

tvrandywest

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« Reply #54 on: February 10, 2004, 11:56:38 AM »
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Feb 10 2004, 08:23 AM\'] What SFX did you get? I'm thinking HS' "tacky buzzer" and Beulah are in there somewhere. [/quote]
I haven't listened since, but while I was dubbing I kept a cue sheet. It includes stuff from TTTT, Split Decision, Hot Potato, Chain Letter, Classic Concentration, Gimme the Money, Wheel of Fortune, Live Wire, Scrabble, Show Me (I announced that pilot!), Battlestars, Word Play, Blockbusters, Off The Wall, Your Number's Up, Buzz Word, Dream House, Sale of the Century, Photo Finish, Trivia Combat, Hollywood Squares, etc..

Under HS: cuckoo, win, car start/win, swoosh, chime, baby love, car no go, tap bell, phone ring, pick secret square, win secret square.

And if I may be so bold as to anticipate posts, let me respond: No, I can not dub this stuff for anybody because I don't own the rights and don't have the permission of the rights holders. Sorry, but this is my livelihood and not only a hobby. Trust, honesty and reputation are part of what I need to make a living, and I take those values very seriously. BUT, I'll gladly play it all for 'ya in person once I get it all dubbed   ;-)

Quote
Just out of curiosity, would these include the audience reaction effects as well?

There were lots and lots of audience effects. I remember watching live sweetening being done for the first time at "Sale of the Century". That stuff was all there but I didn't dub it. It was lower priority for me.


Randy
tvrandywest.com
« Last Edit: February 10, 2004, 12:00:04 PM by tvrandywest »
The story behind the voice you know and love... the voice of a generation of game shows: Johnny Olson!

Celebrate the centennial of the America's favorite announcer with "Johnny Olson: A Voice in Time."

Preview the book free: click "Johnny O Tribute" http://www.tvrandywest.com

Ryan_Conley194

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« Reply #55 on: May 07, 2005, 01:30:53 PM »
"There were lots and lots of audience effects. I remember watching live sweetening being done for the first time at "Sale of the Century". That stuff was all there but I didn't dub it. It was lower priority for me."

Speaking of which, after the NBC sound effects department closed for good, where do these sound effects reside today? I am definitely into audience sweetening and I had experimented one of NBC's audience tracks and inserted into different game show clips.

There is a sound effects manufacturer called Sound Ideas which is headquarted in Beaver Creek, Ontario and I think they may be interested in hunting down the complete NBC sound effects library, including the audience effects (or crowd effects, as I call them.)

tvrandywest

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« Reply #56 on: May 07, 2005, 03:41:06 PM »
[quote name=\'Ryan_Conley194\' date=\'May 7 2005, 09:30 AM\']Speaking of which, after the NBC sound effects department closed for good, where do these sound effects reside today? I am definitely into audience sweetening and I had experimented one of NBC's audience tracks and inserted into different game show clips.
[snapback]84669[/snapback]
[/quote]
If it weren't for the increased concern for the environment, they would probably be where NBC dumped its "trash" decades ago... in the Pacific, about 3 miles off Santa Monica.

I was told that the entire room was destined for the dumpster. When I suggested a tax deductible gift to a college I was told that, unlike some other facilities, NBC Burbank hadn't taken that route with far more valuable outdated assets. And without someone like Ray Angona at CBS salvaging the broadcast legacy in the back of his car and delivering it to Pacific Pioneer Broadcasters, it's all just another memory to be mentioned on some obscure internet discussion site

Does it sound like I need to increase my Prozac? Hey, it's just the reality of the business known as show.

Quote
There is a sound effects manufacturer called Sound Ideas which is headquarted in Beaver Creek, Ontario and I think they may be interested in hunting down the complete NBC sound effects library, including the audience effects (or crowd effects, as I call them.)
I know Sound Ideas. Sorry, but I disagree. All jokes about Canada aside, I doubt that even a Canadian sound design firm would want mono effects with 5th generation dubbed analog tape hiss.   ;-)    
And I doubt  the "collector" / "fan" market is lucrative enough to make it worthwhile to pursue.


Randy
tvrandywest.com
« Last Edit: May 07, 2005, 06:08:08 PM by tvrandywest »
The story behind the voice you know and love... the voice of a generation of game shows: Johnny Olson!

Celebrate the centennial of the America's favorite announcer with "Johnny Olson: A Voice in Time."

Preview the book free: click "Johnny O Tribute" http://www.tvrandywest.com

saussage

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EGGCRATE READOUTS
« Reply #57 on: May 08, 2005, 11:27:50 AM »
Going slightly OT, about old readouts vs new LCD ones. I always found old readouts (eggcrate or not) to be easier to read. I don't know about you but the totals on WOF for me seem harder to read now with the new LCD readouts than the old ones (I guess the old readouts had better contrast and white (or sometimes yellow) text on a black background may not look as pretty but is easier to read). One thing I was against the old readouts was that certain game shows would continue to use the readouts after several bulbs burnt out... how annoying. I'm sure someone can put some new bulbs in between a batch of tapings.

I guess we should all enjoy the old readouts on TPIR since we'll problably never see new game shows using them.
Don't think too hard... you might give yourself a headache.

Ryan_Conley194

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« Reply #58 on: May 08, 2005, 10:57:07 PM »
"I know Sound Ideas. Sorry, but I disagree. All jokes about Canada aside, I doubt that even a Canadian sound design firm would want mono effects with 5th generation dubbed analog tape hiss."

As if you didn't know, some of the sound effects libraries they acquired were carefully cleaned and remastered digitally for better sound quality.  Who knows? it might work on NBC's sound effects because they might be able to remove all of the tape hiss and make it available to many clients.

One of the shows I would like to hear NBC's crowd sounds are on Nickelodeon's cartoons such as SpongeBob SquarePants, Jimmy Neutron and Fairly Oddparents.

clemon79

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« Reply #59 on: May 09, 2005, 12:13:04 AM »
[quote name=\'Ryan_Conley194\' date=\'May 8 2005, 07:57 PM\']One of the shows I would like to hear NBC's crowd sounds are on Nickelodeon's cartoons such as SpongeBob SquarePants, Jimmy Neutron and Fairly Oddparents.
[/quote]
Wow.
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