Alternate Timeline: Dennis James Gets the Daytime Price is Right

[aaron sica]

Would Viacom have expanded Price into a strip in fall 79?

That's an interesting thought. MG was brought into a strip nearly seemlessly, with the only modification being that each contestant played two games and there were no returning champs. Game play remained almost the same, except for tiebreakers at the end of the week. Unfortunately the cancelled daytime version can't be that seamless as it was an hour. It was modified in this way (with a slight nod to TNPiR94): Three pricing games, showcase showdown (with the two highest amounts moving on). No bonus spins due to time, however. Then showcases but with no commercial break between showcases and reveal.

[calliaume]

Plus multiple people said Dennis was limited on knowing the pricing games.

I've heard this as well - but I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.  My memory is most of the game shows that aired weekly in syndication taped over a very short schedule (maybe three or four weeks), which probably gave Dennis a lot less time to learn and memorize the pricing games.  He didn't seem to struggle on Name That Tune, which was similar in that it had several minigames.

I wonder if Dennis had started and they wanted to replace him, whom G-T may have looked at....Bob Eubanks, whom Goodson liked and was available every couple of years?

Uh, no.  From Bob's book (or at least the advance reading copy I have):  "For years I could never get an audition with Goodson because he hated [Chuck] Barris as well as despised Rhyme and Reason.  One day I was at LAX waiting for a plane and ran into Goodson's attorney.  I expressed my desire to be able to audition for Goodson.  That meeting was fortuitous because a few weeks later I was hired by Mark to do his new show, Trivia Trap."

[Bryce L.]

I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.  My memory is most of the game shows that aired weekly in syndication taped over a very short schedule (maybe three or four weeks), which probably gave Dennis a lot less time to learn and memorize the pricing games.

The taping schedule for the 1970s nighttime TPIR can be found here. Probably a much wider span of time than you were expecting (on average, from July to March).

[Neumms]

"For years I could never get an audition with Goodson because he hated [Chuck] Barris as well as despised Rhyme and Reason.  One day I was at LAX waiting for a plan and ran into Goodson's attorney.  I expressed my desire to be able to audition for Goodson.  That meeting was fortuitous because a few weeks later I was hired by Mark to do his new show, Trivia Trap."

Hadn't heard that before. Thanks, Curt.

[MSTieScott]

Plus multiple people said Dennis was limited on knowing the pricing games.

I've heard this as well - but I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.

I wonder whether the "Dennis didn't know the games" story was based on his performance or if it was simply a fan making an inference from the fact that at the beginning of the fifth syndicated season, the show introduced a wider variety of pricing games, only to cut back to the same ol' same ol' for the second half of the season. (And then that inference got repeated over and over online until it was considered to be fact.)

If the story is the result of the latter, then it's worth noting that even after Barker took over the syndicated series, the show never again drew from the full pool of games available to the daytime version. So it's very possible that the limited number of pricing games in syndication might not be related to the abilities of the host.

[thomas_meighan]

I think Dennis' success as a daytime TPIR host would depend on his ability to adapt to the hourlong format and learning several new pricing games every season. If he did both successfully and audiences liked him, fine. If not, G-T likely wouldn't have renewed his contract, and possibly would've bought it out.

Assuming the show remains as popular as it did with Barker as host, the question of Dennis' retirement would've come up somewhere between the late 80s and mid-90s, or however long he stayed well enough to host. With network games on the decline during those years, Goodson (or the successor companies) would've had a pretty important choice to make.

As an aside, do we know the original source for the claim that Dennis had a hard time learning the games, didn't understand them, etc.?

[JasonA1]

If the story is the result of the latter, then it's worth noting that even after Barker took over the syndicated series, the show never again drew from the full pool of games available to the daytime version. So it's very possible that the limited number of pricing games in syndication might not be related to the abilities of the host.

And if memory serves from earlier posts, Shokus Radio episodes, etc. - Jay Wolpert was the main producer of the daytime version, whereas Frank Wayne was more hands on with the day-to-day of the nighttime version. So that could explain the difference as well.

-Jason

[Bryce L.]

Plus multiple people said Dennis was limited on knowing the pricing games.

I've heard this as well - but I'd like to ask anyone familiar with that era if they can identify the show's taping schedule.

I wonder whether the "Dennis didn't know the games" story was based on his performance or if it was simply a fan making an inference from the fact that at the beginning of the fifth syndicated season, the show introduced a wider variety of pricing games, only to cut back to the same ol' same ol' for the second half of the season. (And then that inference got repeated over and over online until it was considered to be fact.)

If the story is the result of the latter, then it's worth noting that even after Barker took over the syndicated series, the show never again drew from the full pool of games available to the daytime version. So it's very possible that the limited number of pricing games in syndication might not be related to the abilities of the host.

I always assumed the reason for a smaller rotation of games was to stay away from the "longer" games, so as to leave more time for the Showcases.

[whewfan]

"For years I could never get an audition with Goodson because he hated [Chuck] Barris as well as despised Rhyme and Reason.  One day I was at LAX waiting for a plan and ran into Goodson's attorney.  I expressed my desire to be able to audition for Goodson.  That meeting was fortuitous because a few weeks later I was hired by Mark to do his new show, Trivia Trap."

Hadn't heard that before. Thanks, Curt.

I'll bet Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason due to its similarities to Match Game. Both shows had six celebs (Richard Dawson also did the pilot), both shows involved matching a celeb with an answer to basically a "fill in the blank" phrase, the bonus game also was kind of similar, with the contestant coming up with three possible answers to a "fill in the blank" phrase, but all the contestant could do was repeat the phrase over and over hoping the celeb would come up with the rhyming word. Just the same, Tom Kennedy didn't host a GT game show until Allen Ludden and Betty White strongly suggested Tom to replace Allen on Password Plus. According to Tom, Goodson disliked him because he hosted You Don't Say, which he felt was a Password ripoff. (If you see the 5th episode on YouTube with Betty White, Goodson had reason to be upset... Tom's phrasings  of "as they look at it, we want you to see it at home", and his podium being at the center, it even LOOKED like Password. which is why Tom's podium was moved to the left later in the run. Tom also found a unique, playful way to joke with the celebs and civilians that was different from how Allen did Password.) I'd also have misgivings about casting someone well associated with a Chuck Barris show. Perhaps that's why Jim Lange never hosted a GT game show.

[SuperMatch93]

I'll bet Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason due to its similarities to Match Game.

In Bob Eubanks' Television Academy interview, he mentions a rumor that Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason so much that its cancellation was one of the caveats for ABC getting Family Feud.

[Jimmy Owen]

I'll bet Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason due to its similarities to Match Game.

In Bob Eubanks' Television Academy interview, he mentions a rumor that Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason so much that its cancellation was one of the caveats for ABC getting Family Feud.

That is plausible, because, as I recall, R&R was somewhat popular for ABC. 

[calliaume]

In Bob Eubanks' Television Academy interview, he mentions a rumor that Goodson hated Rhyme and Reason so much that its cancellation was one of the caveats for ABC getting Family Feud.

That is plausible, because, as I recall, R&R was somewhat popular for ABC.

Also from the book:

"Later I found out why our show had been cancelled.  Michael Brockman, who was the head of daytime television for ABC, had always taken care of Mark Goodson, the dean of American game show producers. It was well known in the business that if two shows were competing, and one were [sic] produced by Goodson, his company always got preferential treatment.  Less well known was the fact Goodson hated our show because he thought it was just like the Match Game, one of his shows.  Furthermore, what really pissed him off was the fact that Richard Dawson, one of his regular panelists on Match Game, had done our pilot.  When Rhyme and Reason was picked up and did bigger numbers than the slower paced Match Game, Goodson was furious.  About a year later Goodson developed Family Feud, which ABC really wanted.  The way I heard the story was that Goodson told Brockman he could have Feud only if he axed Rhyme.  So he did and Dawson had a new job.  Of course Family Feud has become one of the most successful game shows of all time, a staple of network and syndication for most of the last 28 years."

[BillCullen1]

I had a feeling that was why Goodson hated R&R. If someone in his company had thought it up, he would have probably loved it as he would have cloned a successful show of his, like he did with WML, IGAS and TTTT.

Back to Dennis. I don't see him hosting TPIR as long as Bob did. He was six years older than Bob.

[cmjb13]

Let's say James does the daytime version up until his death in 1997.

Who takes the show over at that time?

[Dbacksfan12]

Let's say James does the daytime version up until his death in 1997.

Who takes the show over at that time?

Tom Bergeron does it instead of hosting Hollywood Squares.