Quick question regarding IGAS, 1961...

[TwoInchQuad]

Have either of the Florida Shows from March of 1961 ever been aired (GSN or BUZZR)...?

- Kevin

[Eric Paddon]

Apparently not.

[TwoInchQuad]

I thought that was the case, but I wasn't sure...  odd that **both** of them are apparently missing from the archive.

- Kevin

[Matt Ottinger]

odd that **both** of them are apparently missing from the archive

Probably not a coincidence.  When you look at the couple dozen that appear to be genuinely missing from the archive, a number of them are notable for one reason or another.  The only Bob Hope appearance, the election special with three huge guest stars, the transitional episode from Garry to Steve, and these two, for example.  My impression is that back when these films were gathering dust on the G-T shelves, important people who had access may not have seen a big problem with just helping themselves to them.  (It's interesting, for example, that the election special is missing, and it's the one episode that Gil Fates goes into complete detail about in his WML book.)

[TwoInchQuad]

odd that **both** of them are apparently missing from the archive

Probably not a coincidence.  When you look at the couple dozen that appear to be genuinely missing from the archive, a number of them are notable for one reason or another.  The only Bob Hope appearance, the election special with three huge guest stars, the transitional episode from Garry to Steve, and these two, for example.  My impression is that back when these films were gathering dust on the G-T shelves, important people who had access may not have seen a big problem with just helping themselves to them.  (It's interesting, for example, that the election special is missing, and it's the one episode that Gil Fates goes into complete detail about in his WML book.)

True enough...

Having said that, though, I have some material concerning these two programs that might make a worthwhile addition to an IGAS website... if someone were curating such a thing, mind you...

- Kevin

[RMF]

odd that **both** of them are apparently missing from the archive

Probably not a coincidence.  When you look at the couple dozen that appear to be genuinely missing from the archive, a number of them are notable for one reason or another.  The only Bob Hope appearance, the election special with three huge guest stars, the transitional episode from Garry to Steve, and these two, for example.  My impression is that back when these films were gathering dust on the G-T shelves, important people who had access may not have seen a big problem with just helping themselves to them.  (It's interesting, for example, that the election special is missing, and it's the one episode that Gil Fates goes into complete detail about in his WML book.)

A tangent, I admit, but one that came to mind after looking at comparative episode guides:

It appears that a disproportionately high percentage of the missing post-late July of 1952 episodes of both IGAS and WML? come from the last year or so of those series' runs- wondering if there's a story there, or if it's just some fluke....

[Matt Ottinger]

Having said that, though, I have some material concerning these two programs that might make a worthwhile addition to an IGAS website... if someone were curating such a thing, mind you...

I can put you in touch with a guy.

(Seriously, I would love anything you've got!)

I have a little bit on both episodes already.  The local newspaper was thrilled to have a big-time TV show (a couple, actually) going on right in their own backyard.

https://ivegotasecret.nicepage.io/424.html

[Matt Ottinger]

A tangent, I admit, but one that came to mind after looking at comparative episode guides:

It appears that a disproportionately high percentage of the missing post-late July of 1952 episodes of both IGAS and WML? come from the last year or so of those series' runs- wondering if there's a story there, or if it's just some fluke....

I'm not sure I'm getting your point here.  For the 66-67 final season of IGAS, for example, there are only three missing episodes.  One of those is a "special" one with Walter Cronkite.  That might be a little more than average (there are two missing from the 65-66 season) but hardly disproportional.

[TwoInchQuad]

Matt's got mail...!   

- Kevin

[That Don Guy]

Why do I have a feeling that the missing "specials" were cut up so that parts of them could be shown in some special?

Some WML episodes have some blatant cuts in them - for example, there was one where a mystery guest's (John Wayne?) entrance is cut, as well as the moment when someone guesses who it was. Also, I think the first time Jerry Lewis was introduced as a panelist was cut. At first, I thought it was for ABC's WML special that it aired in its late night slot, but I have seen that, and none of the missing clips are in it. Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if something similar was done with IGAS, but instead of airing the cut episodes (and how many of them were sponsored by Winston?), they just shelved them.

[Eric Paddon]

There indeed are a lot of WML kinescopes that were messed up because clips were taken out for the anniversary special.    The 1965 show with Marian Anderson as Mystery Guest suffered the worst because when the kinescope was reassembled, the bits were put back in in the wrong order.    The Dean Martin/Jerry Lewis show was evidently destroyed completely in the process and the clip of their appearance is all that survives of the episode.

Thanks to the miracle of digital editing though it is possible to restore some of these wrecked episodes back to how they originally were.  For instance this July 1963 episode had a missing question by Woody Allen during one segment that was used on the anniversary show.   



And the restored Marian Anderson appearance.

[Matt Ottinger]

Unlike WML, there wasn't a stand-alone special for I've Got a Secret, but in the early years, they would show clips from previous episodes on anniversary shows and similar specials, and it created similar problems for the kinescope archives.

One of my favorite examples of this was a mystery I only recently solved, with the assistance of Mike Burger (mmb5 here).  There is a clip in the 1957 Christmas show that featured little Bobby Sherman (later noted G-T producer Robert Sherman) riding around on a lion.  Garry says it's from September 28, 1955.  Thing is, GSN has played the episode from September 28, 1955 (it's the one with famous baseball players, including Ty Cobb) and that segment with little Bobby is nowhere to be seen.  Turns out, the entire segment with the lion had been removed from what GSN aired.  Presumably there was a hole where that segment used to be, and GSN ended up running a twenty-minute episode with more time for ads.

https://ivegotasecret.nicepage.io/155.html

[Eric Paddon]

I hadn't realized that.    That would be the second confirmed case of GSN showing a compromised episode of something that extensive as they also showed Fred Allen's last WML which is missing the MG segment of Dinah Shore.

[Matt Ottinger]

I hadn't realized that.    That would be the second confirmed case of GSN showing a compromised episode of something that extensive as they also showed Fred Allen's last WML which is missing the MG segment of Dinah Shore.

Either GSN or Buzzr has also deliberately shown a compromised episode of Secret that exists fully intact, purely for modern editorial reasons.  A 1965 episode with Kay Ballard has been aired in full in the past, but most recently has been aired without the entire Ballard segment.  She and Steve played a game having to do with the winter song "Baby It's Cold Outside", which today is considered controversial in some circles.

[SuperMatch93]

Unlike WML, there wasn't a stand-alone special for I've Got a Secret, but in the early years, they would show clips from previous episodes on anniversary shows and similar specials, and it created similar problems for the kinescope archives.

If I'm not mistaken, doesn't one of the anniversary shows have a brief clip from the now-lost premiere?