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Author Topic: Arrrrrrrsssseeeeniiiiooo Haaaaalllll,  (Read 16785 times)

Chelsea Thrasher

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« Reply #30 on: May 04, 2004, 04:10:55 PM »
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'May 4 2004, 02:55 PM\'] GSN doesn't appear to have been so lucky, but I can't blame them for trying to get beyond the niche audience. [/quote]
 That's just it though.  It was programming to the niche (Game Shows) which produced GSN's best ratings (March 2003).   GSN tried to program outside the niche (Summer 2003), ratings tanked.   GSN programmed to the niche (Oct 2003 - Mar 2004), ratings went up.

Get the picture.    It's the niche audiences who are watching the network.   And when GSN stops programming to the niches, numbers drop.

CaseyAbell

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« Reply #31 on: May 04, 2004, 04:23:42 PM »
In fact, the best household count doesn't appear to have been in March, 2003. GSN scored big in a couple weeks of that month with the Larsen documentary, but the month as a whole appears to have seen a lower household count than January and February of 2004. Can't be sure because I don't have the exact numbers for this year. At any rate, even in its best months GSN has never cracked the top 25 ad-supported cablers. It's always been a niche network for fans of traditional studio game shows.

The main driver of those good months - Millionaire - isn't budging. And the other two shows, Lingo and MG, keep a lot of their exposure. The household count may be okay, but the demos are just what cable operators aren't interested in. We can wail and gnash dentistry all day long about this, but GSN can either resign itself to perpetual nichedom, or the network can try to appeal to a broader range of viewers.

Will that please the purists? Of course not. Will it get a more advertiser-friendly audience? We'll see.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2004, 04:29:02 PM by CaseyAbell »

clemon79

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« Reply #32 on: May 04, 2004, 05:39:16 PM »
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'May 4 2004, 12:55 PM\'] Contestants try to win a competition. That's not a game? What is it, a seminar? [/quote]
 The Bulwer-Lytton contest is contestants trying to win a competition, too. Is THAT a game?
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CaseyAbell

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« Reply #33 on: May 04, 2004, 05:52:09 PM »
Uh, yeah, it is. It's a joke game, but it's still a game. In fact, I suspect most of the contestants would tell you they're in it for the fun of the game.

rigsby

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« Reply #34 on: May 04, 2004, 06:07:46 PM »
[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'May 4 2004, 12:58 PM\'] I was thinking the same thing.  I always had GSN on C-band satellite, and they discontinued that signal on March 19th of this year.  You know what, I haven't really missed it.  When I see all these shows that they're adding, I almost think I can do without it.  I can probably live on my 1700+ episodes I've acquired through the years.  It doesn't seem like there's much worthwile there right now. [/quote]
 I'm in the same boat...we cut way back on the cable and lost GSN several months ago, and truly, I don't miss it much either.  That, and since we had the baby, I've discovered that a lot of the newer shows are not always baby-friendly (on pretty much any network, not just GSN).

tyshaun1

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« Reply #35 on: May 04, 2004, 06:27:21 PM »
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'May 4 2004, 02:55 PM\']
[My hand's up. Talent contests aren't my cuppa, but they sound pretty game-like to me. Contestants try to win a competition. That's not a game? What is it, a seminar? [/quote]
 By your definition, the Olympics, Miss USA Pageant, and the general election all constitute game shows. Just because there is a competition between people on television doesn't mean it should be classified as a game show. You are REALLY stretching now, Casey.

Tyshaun

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« Reply #36 on: May 04, 2004, 10:15:34 PM »
[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'May 4 2004, 04:39 PM\'] [quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'May 4 2004, 12:55 PM\'] Contestants try to win a competition. That's not a game? What is it, a seminar? [/quote]
The Bulwer-Lytton contest is contestants trying to win a competition, too. Is THAT a game? [/quote]
 I always thought the Bulwer-Lytton contest was a dark and stormy night.
-- Ted Schuerzinger, now blogging at <a href=\"http://justacineast.blogspot.com/\" target=\"_blank\">http://justacineast.blogspot.com/[/url]

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CaseyAbell

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« Reply #37 on: May 05, 2004, 12:05:16 AM »
Quote
By your definition, the Olympics, Miss USA Pageant, and the general election all constitute game shows.
The issue was whether Star Search "in any way encompasses the concept of a game," not whether it's a game show. And yes, Star Search does encompass much of that concept. Contestants compete in a staged setting according to agreed-upon rules for prizes of significant value.

Of course, Star Search isn't a traditional game show in the sense that Millionaire is, though it interestingly becomes something of a chore to pin down the exact difference.

Probably the most significant difference for me is the enormous and unavoidable subjectivity in the judging. I know that subjective judgments are made on traditional game shows all the time, but talent contests take this element to an extreme. This leads to what often seem like unfair results, which is why talent contests aren't a personal fave of mine. Does this sound familiar to fans of the current American Idol series?

In fact, I would make much the same criticism of the Miss USA Pageant and some subjectively judged events in the Olympics. (Watch out for that French judge in the pairs figure skating event.) I'll leave the election alone.

But I don't see what is gained by saying there aren't elements of a game involved on Star Search.

Quote
I always thought the Bulwer-Lytton contest was a dark and stormy night.
That's the start of the game. Bulwer-Lytton went on for a while after the start.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2004, 08:57:35 AM by CaseyAbell »

Matt Ottinger

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« Reply #38 on: May 05, 2004, 10:48:57 AM »
It never ceases to fascinate me how often we get back to the "is it or isn't it?" argument.  Star Search is obviously a talent competition, and as such is strictly speaking not a "game show".  But does it "in any way encompasses the concept of a game"?  Well, of course it does.  That's a mighty broad statement.  It certainly fits the new GSN concept a lot more than Spy TV.
This has been another installment of Matt Ottinger's Masters of the Obvious.
Stay tuned for all the obsessive-compulsive fun of Words Have Meanings.

JMFabiano

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« Reply #39 on: May 05, 2004, 06:07:37 PM »
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'May 4 2004, 02:55 PM\']
Quote
As for AMC, they had no choice--either make the programming decisions that they made or have cable systems drop them for being too expensive.
And as I'm sure you know, those decisions have paid off with the best numbers AMC ever achieved. GSN doesn't appear to have been so lucky, but I can't blame them for trying to get beyond the niche audience.? [/quote]
 Very true, and all the power to them.  Still, the whole demographic thing is very frustrating to me sometimes.  Of course I am biased and will wish for the good old days, and say that "my" programming (and more often, actually, a lot of yours) and my tastes are better.  And that I wish I could keep it forever.  Do I seem less crazy after saying so?
I'm a pacifist, and even I would like to see a little more action.

clemon79

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« Reply #40 on: May 05, 2004, 09:52:25 PM »
[quote name=\'JMFabiano\' date=\'May 5 2004, 03:07 PM\'] Do I seem less crazy after saying so? [/quote]
 The thing that makes people seem crazy here is that most people keep wishing and wishing and wishing and wishing and wishing and wishing and wishing and wishing and wishing and wishing like it will actually make it so if they keep it up, instead of eventually realizing that it's Not Gonna Happen and getting on with their life. If they'd say "I wish it were this way, but I know it's not and won't be anytime soon", they wouldn't get nearly as much grief.
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inturnaround

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« Reply #41 on: May 06, 2004, 01:09:55 AM »
[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'May 4 2004, 02:55 PM\']
Quote
Hands up, anyone who thinks Star Search in any way encompasses the concept of a "game".
My hand's up. Talent contests aren't my cuppa, but they sound pretty game-like to me. Contestants try to win a competition. That's not a game? What is it, a seminar? [/quote]
 Yeah, my hand's up too. It's not a "game show", but it most certainly is a game.

But I'm not surprised. 'Tis not a complete day around here until Chris Lemon serves up his traditional snarky post o' the day.
Joe Coughlin     
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GS Warehouse

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« Reply #42 on: May 06, 2004, 10:59:05 AM »
[quote name=\'inturnaround\' date=\'May 6 2004, 01:09 AM\'] Yeah, my hand's up too. It's not a "game show", but it most certainly is a game.

But I'm not surprised. 'Tis not a complete day around here until Chris Lemon serves up his traditional snarky post o' the day. [/quote]
I'm not as good at snarky, but I'll give it a try...

Yer high. :-)

We've established that the Olympics, Miss USA pageant, general elections, and Star Search all have game-type elements: competitions with tangible rewards.  That's what most of us think of as the definition of a game show, but now that I think about it, in general, that is actually the definition of a contest.  And the reason the line between reality competitions and traditional game shows has become more and more blurred is because they are both subsets of contests.  Star Search, American Idol, Survivor, Big Brother, and even The Bachelor are all contests, but that doesn't make them game shows.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2004, 11:01:14 AM by GS Warehouse »

clemon79

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« Reply #43 on: May 06, 2004, 11:36:17 AM »
[quote name=\'GS Warehouse\' date=\'May 6 2004, 07:59 AM\'] We've established that the Olympics, Miss USA pageant, general elections, and Star Search all have game-type elements: competitions with tangible rewards.  That's what most of us think of as the definition of a game show, but now that I think about it, in general, that is actually the definition of a contest. [/quote]
 Exactly!

Coughlin's shot notwithstanding (and I bet he's as excited about killfiles coming as I am, to which I say: Good), I never suggested that Star Search was a "game show" in the sense that we know a "game show", and to do so would be silly since that is no longer GSN's focus. However, GSN's focus DOES allege to be "games" as a whole, and I'm standing firmly by my claim that SS isn't even a "game", much less a "game show". Why? A game (at least, a good one) is something you enjoy participating in for its own sake.

"But they love what they do, you can hear it in their dulcet tones!" you might say. And you'd be an idiot. I love what I do for a living. Doesn't mean it becomes a game when the guy down the hall tries to do my job better than I do.

Or, put it this way: How many of those people on SS would participate in the competition if there was NOTHING to show for it. No prize money, no publicity, no street buzz, no national exposure. No career advancement whatsoever. They all show up in an empty warehouse with nobody but them and the judges (oh, hell, throw Arsenio in there, too, it's not like HE has anything better to do), and someone walks out declared one of Life's Winners, and nothing else. I promise you that would be one empty warehouse.

And yet, at some time tomorrow night I bet you I will sit down to play Password for the same stakes. That's the difference between a game and a contest, in my eyes.
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CaseyAbell

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« Reply #44 on: May 06, 2004, 11:48:29 AM »
This thread is running off into semantics, but it's also getting kinda fun. We're bogged down in the difference between a "game" and a "game show."

Next week: how many angels can dance on Alex Trebek's chin?

Talent contests are obviously games. In fact, the online Merriam-Webster definition of "game" uses the word "contest" three times in the definition. Once you concede that Star Search is a contest, you've pretty much conceded that it's at least something of a game. As, in fact, are beauty pageants, sports events, and elections.

But "game show" means something else to most people. It's what happens on Wheel of Fortune. It's pretty much defined by actual examples. As Potter Stewart would certainly say, people know them when they see them.

When I tried to nail down the differences between talent contests and what most people call a "game show," I was a little surprised by how hard it was. The more I thought about it, the more game shows looked like talent contests themselves.

Jeopardy tests the talents of quick memory and wide knowledge. Lingo tests the talents of language ability and pattern-recognition. Wheel of Fortune tests the talent of hugging Pat when you win.

In fact, many of the talents tested on game shows are much more useful to most people than the ability to warble a tune or dance a fancy step. After all, the ability to hug Pat always comes in handy.

The biggest difference I hit on was the judging, which is necessarily so much more subjective in talent contests. The best-designed game shows try to limit subjectivity in judging to a minimum. It can't be eliminated entirely, of course, but talent contests don't even try, nor should they. Controversy over the winners helps talent contests generate interest. Ask the guys at American Idol.

Oh well, it's a fun bull-session topic.

EDIT: Just saw Chris' interesting idea that a game must involve something you enjoy participating in for its own sake. Sorry, but this idea doesn't convince me at all that Star Search isn't a game.

Personal example: my wife's a classical soprano and she LOVES singing, even in an empty warehouse, even if there's no prize money, publicity, street buzz or national exposure involved. In fact, of course, these things are never involved for my wife, unless you count a page on my web site as national exposure. I'm sure she loves using her considerable talent every bit as much as the trivia mavens on Jeopardy love displaying their knowledge.

So I don't see this distinction between the warblers (and others) on Star Search and the question-phrasers on Jeopardy as being real - at least in many, many individual cases. Truth to tell, it looks more like a similarity between talent contests and game shows than a difference.

Some folks might go on Jeopardy for the sheer joy of showing off their knowledge, just as some folks might go on Star Search for the sheer joy of  cracking jokes or dancing silly dances.

Other contestants on either show might be more interested in the, uh, more tangible rewards. So basing a supposed difference between talent contests and game shows on an alleged difference in the motivations of the contestants doesn't hold water with me. I'd guess the motivations - probably a mix for most contestants on both types of shows - are pretty similar.

But hey, we're talking about things where exact proof is impossible.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2004, 12:54:56 PM by CaseyAbell »