Forgotten Pilots

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'May 28 2004, 10:00 AM\']Mine was actually titled Banko[/quote]
It seems to me that I recall that the working title of "Jackpot!" was "Bank-O!"--and that when it was picked up by NBC, it was originally announced as having that title.  It probably was coincidence here, but it's interesting that Stewart and Lin Bolen decided to change the title--perhaps they thought people shouting "Bank-O!" was too silly (I assume that as envisioned, the opening originally went, "...you'll never know when someone in the game will stand up and yell--BANK-O!"

As if shouting "Jackpot!" or "Super Jackpot!" is real dignified.

[The Ol' Guy]

..and that's a good policy. I pasted my story on the board to serve as a precautionary tale for the younger members here (as well as to vent), because I was there, too. I grasped at any straw to get an idea taken, and when someone did it to me the first time, I sez, "yeah, all right - maybe I'll get credit for the next one." Don't let hunger override smarts. A fellow who developed board games once told me that if you create an item, and someone else changes your idea by roughly 25%, the courts will say that's enough of a change to be considered a new or different idea than what it was copied from. Now whether that's gospel or not, it's just a warning that it doesn't take much for a tv producer to add one or two little twists to your original idea to be able to claim it's more his than yours. I know I'm preaching to the choir with many of us here, but I just want to avoid seeing some of our kids get jerked around. Don't stop being creative and having fun - just don't give ideas away for free unless you're willing to let them go. And when money and/or credit is concerned, trust is a tenuous thing.

[Jimmy Owen]

I'm not sure I would even attempt to ever contact a well-known packager with an idea.  The way I would do it is to get a job with that packager or company first.  If a couple of years of fetching coffee is not to your taste, mount the show yourself; why give your ideas to Dan Enright?

[chris319]

[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'May 28 2004, 05:42 PM\']I'm not sure I would even attempt to ever contact a well-known packager with an idea.  The way I would do it is to get a job with that packager or company first.  If a couple of years of fetching coffee is not to your taste, mount the show yourself; why give your ideas to Dan Enright?[/quote]
That would have been a good idea about 20 years ago. Today the U.S. packagers who used to specialize in game shows have sold out to media conglomerates and/or the principals are retired or dead: Goodson-Todman, Heatter-Quigley, Bob Stewart, Hatos-Hall, Chuck Barris, Reg Grundy, etc. In the early '90s before Mark Goodson passed away, he and Jonathan saw the market for their shows virtually collapse. No longer could they sell a show simply by placing a phone call to CBS or NBC, and the networks certainly weren't seeking them out as they did when they bought Blockbusters I to replace Letterman. The networks used to have people whose job it was to develop daytime programming, principally game shows -- no more. Now they would rather import shows which are already successful in other countries (WWTBAM, Weakest Link) for prime time. The U.S. syndication market is more interested in retreads (HS, Pyramid, FF) than new concepts. I doubt even the "next generation" of packagers such as Jay Wolpert even bother with game shows any more. The new GSN is not interested in studio games. MAYBE if you got a position with Fremantle you'd be in a position to pitch ideas but that's no assurance that your show would ever make it to air.

Not very encouraging, is it? ;-)

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'May 30 2004, 01:14 AM\'] That would have been a good idea about 20 years ago. Today the U.S. packagers who used to specialize in game shows have sold out to media conglomerates and/or the principals are retired or dead: Goodson-Todman, Heatter-Quigley, Bob Stewart, Hatos-Hall, Chuck Barris, Reg Grundy, etc. In the early '90s before Mark Goodson passed away, he and Jonathan saw the market for their shows virtually collapse. No longer could they sell a show simply by placing a phone call to CBS or NBC, and the networks certainly weren't seeking them out as they did when they bought Blockbusters I to replace Letterman. The networks used to have people whose job it was to develop daytime programming, principally game shows -- no more. Now they would rather import shows which are already successful in other countries (WWTBAM, Weakest Link) for prime time. The U.S. syndication market is more interested in retreads (HS, Pyramid, FF) than new concepts. I doubt even the "next generation" of packagers such as Jay Wolpert even bother with game shows any more. The new GSN is not interested in studio games. MAYBE if you got a position with Fremantle you'd be in a position to pitch ideas but that's no assurance that your show would ever make it to air.

Not very encouraging, is it? ;-) [/quote]
 Woud PAX be a good option? They've picked up a few new ideas over the years (Hollywood Showdown, Dirty Rotten Cheater, On the Cover), and seem to enjoy airing game shows.

[chris319]

Woud PAX be a good option?

Possibly. I doubt they develop game shows on the scale the three major networks used to.

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'May 30 2004, 01:14 AM\'] Today the U.S. packagers who used to specialize in game shows have sold out to media conglomerates and/or the principals are retired or dead: Goodson-Todman, Heatter-Quigley, Bob Stewart, Hatos-Hall, Chuck Barris, Reg Grundy, etc. In the early '90s before Mark Goodson passed away, he and Jonathan saw the market for their shows virtually collapse [/quote]
 There are two mom-and-pop game show packagers who have had some success in recent years, though not the success GT and their ilk had back in the day: Sande Stewart(though mostly with lottery games) and the ever-bashed in these parts Stone-Stanley

[Tony]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'May 30 2004, 01:14 AM\'][quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'May 28 2004, 05:42 PM\']I'm not sure I would even attempt to ever contact a well-known packager with an idea.  The way I would do it is to get a job with that packager or company first.  If a couple of years of fetching coffee is not to your taste, mount the show yourself; why give your ideas to Dan Enright?[/quote]
That would have been a good idea about 20 years ago. Today the U.S. packagers who used to specialize in game shows have sold out to media conglomerates and/or the principals are retired or dead: Goodson-Todman, Heatter-Quigley, Bob Stewart, Hatos-Hall, Chuck Barris, Reg Grundy, etc. In the early '90s before Mark Goodson passed away, he and Jonathan saw the market for their shows virtually collapse. No longer could they sell a show simply by placing a phone call to CBS or NBC, and the networks certainly weren't seeking them out as they did when they bought Blockbusters I to replace Letterman. The networks used to have people whose job it was to develop daytime programming, principally game shows -- no more. Now they would rather import shows which are already successful in other countries (WWTBAM, Weakest Link) for prime time. The U.S. syndication market is more interested in retreads (HS, Pyramid, FF) than new concepts. I doubt even the "next generation" of packagers such as Jay Wolpert even bother with game shows any more. The new GSN is not interested in studio games. MAYBE if you got a position with Fremantle you'd be in a position to pitch ideas but that's no assurance that your show would ever make it to air.

Not very encouraging, is it? ;-)[/quote]
And people wonder why I believe we are in a Game Show Great Depression.  You, Mr. Clementson, have explained it better that I ever could.

[The Ol' Guy]

Isn't Phil Gurin also positioning himself as a serious member in the game production world? In fact, what is Jay Wolpert doing these days? Some of us remember that when the handwriting was starting to appear on the wall, some game outfits tried to be ready and stretch into alternative programming. I remember Tales Of The Haunted, Strange As It Seems, Jack Anderson Confidential, All About Us, Soap World, and Mama Malone. All major failures, but the winds of change were causing chills in the game world. Chris, was G-T also looking into other ideas in the 80s, or were they certain their classic properties were enough to keep them afloat?

[calliaume]

[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'May 30 2004, 10:43 PM\'] In fact, what is Jay Wolpert doing these days? [/quote]
 Screenplay for 2002's The Count of Monte Cristo and "screen story" for 2003's Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl.

Wolpert obviously loves game shows, but I suspect his current career track is proving more lucrative.

[chris319]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but neither Sande Stewart nor Stone-Stanley has been involved in the current rash of prime-time reality programs nor are they involved with the major syndicated game shows: Pyramid, FF, WWTBAM or HS. AFAIK Sande Stewart isn't doing much business with GSN any more. I don't know what Phil Gurin is up to at this very moment, nor have I kept in contact with Bob Boden, who could start shopping shows around subsequent to his GSN stint. After selling MGP, Jonathan Goodson started his own company to do state lottery shows.

In the summer/fall of 1979, G-T had on the air:

1. Family Feud (ABC daytime and syndicated nighttime)

2. Match Game (syndicated)

3. The Price Is Right (CBS daytime and syndicated nighttime)

4. Card Sharks (NBC daytime)

5. Mindreaders (NBC daytime)

6. Password Plus (NBC daytime)

7. All-New Beat the Clock (CBS daytime)

With all of that going on, our competitors' business was also healthy:

Heatter-Quigley (HS, HR)

Barry & Enright (TJW, TTD)

Chuck Barris (3s a Crowd, whatever else)

Merv Griffin (WOF)

Bob Stewart

On top of that, there was a steady stream of network pilots being done every quarter by the likes of Hill-Eubanks, Hatos-Hall, Ralph Andrews, etc.

Anyone contemplating a career doing JUST game shows should consider the current business climate for this kind of programming.

[Craig Karlberg]

Seems like 1979 was just as big a year for game shows as 1975 ever was.  With about 15 shows on the air & another 10-20 ideas floating around, it's easy to see that the game show busness was a prosperous one back then.

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'May 31 2004, 03:35 AM\'] Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but neither Sande Stewart nor Stone-Stanley has been involved in the current rash of prime-time reality programs [/quote]
 Stone-Stanley did produce the Mole, which IIRC ABC has stopped doing new shows of.

[Tony]

[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'May 31 2004, 08:07 AM\'][quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'May 31 2004, 03:35 AM\'] Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but neither Sande Stewart nor Stone-Stanley has been involved in the current rash of prime-time reality programs [/quote]
Stone-Stanley did produce the Mole, which IIRC ABC has stopped doing new shows of.[/quote]
The fact that ABC has stopped showing The Mole of any stripe is precisely why Mr. Clementson expressly omitted Stone-Stanley shows from the current rash of prime-time "reality" shows.
I'm sure I'm not the first to say this, but please get a clue.

[calliaume]

[quote name=\'Craig Karlberg\' date=\'May 31 2004, 03:52 AM\'] Seems like 1979 was just as big a year for game shows as 1975 ever was.  With about 15 shows on the air & another 10-20 ideas floating around, it's easy to see that the game show busness was a prosperous one back then. [/quote]
 Not really.  At their respective peaks, NBC had 4 hours of daytime games, CBS 3, and ABC 3-1/2 at one time or another during that year.  (I'm not counting January 2, which was NBC's last day with 4-1/2 hours of games.)  I also count 13 weekly syndie games and seven syndie strips (admittedly, not all of them ran start to finish throughout the year).

By 1979, we were down to 2 hours on CBS, 3 on NBC, and one on ABC.  I don't know how many syndie hours there were at that point, but I can't believe there were 11 additional syndie strips to make up the gap.