Classic 21 Question

[beatlefreak84]

Are they still, though? I'm aware this was a big knock on the first series, but I thought the second and third versions knocked people off wholly by the vote of the household. (I could be wrong, I admit I didn't watch all that closely, the lustre wore off when I couldn't watch the Internet feeds without paying for them anymore.)

Yep, you're right, Chris.  Starting with the second series, the houseguests compete for a \"Head of Household\" position, who then nominates two people for eviction and then the rest of the house votes to determine who gets kicked out; if there's a tie, then the HOH determines the final vote.

No part of the voting is determined by the general public anymore, so the show is basically \"Indoors Survivor.\"

Hope that helped!

Anthony

[Fedya]

Chuck Net wrote:

Yep...for starters, Van Doren didn't win on the H.W. Halleck question, which was actually one of the first to come up in the actual show. Also, Congressional investigator Richard Goodwin's role as portrayed in QS was greatly exaggerated, since it was NY assistant DA Joe Stone who did most of the work.

Didn't Goodwin write the book on which the movie was based?

Not only that, but he's Mr. Doris Kearns Goodwin as well.  The two probably deserve each other.  :-)

[Matt Ottinger]

Didn't Goodwin write the book on which the movie was based?

The movie is officially based on Goodwin's memoirs called \"Remembering America\", but the fact is that the game show scandals only occupy one *chapter* of that book and are really discussed very broadly.  Much of the detail that the filmmakers came up with had to come from other sources.  

The most detailed book about the scandals is the aforementioned \"Prime Time and Misdemeanors\" by Manhattan District Attorney Joseph Stone.  The biggest liberty that the film takes is that it greatly exaggerates Goodwin's role in the actual investigations, at the expense of D.A. Stone.

REALLY good paragraph dissecting the liberties taken in Quiz Show, including Stone's opinion about it all:
http://history.sandiego.edu/gen/filmnotes/...s/quizshow.html

But Richard is married to Doris?  I didn't know that!

[Fedya]

One-time $ale of the Century swinger Matt Ottinger wrote:

But Richard is married to Doris? I didn't know that!

Well, if the IMDb is to be believed, he is.  I remember seeing Richard Goodwin's name in the opening credits and wondering if he was related to her.  Since she worked in the LBJ White House (along with Bill Moyers), and he was a one-time congressional staffer, it doesnn't surprise me.

That, and from what I've heard Doris took some serious liberties in her baseball book.  ;-)

[Michael Brandenburg]

Now, here's a programming idea (and please, no flames about how GSN doesn't have any of this; this is just dreaming)

Promote 21 with a '21' night.
7 pm: An episode of the original 21
7:30: A showing of \"Quiz Show.\"
10:00: Two new 21s

   My own idea for this September 21st: Twenty-one episodes of Twenty-One -- two episodes of the half-hour original and the 19 episodes of the Povitch run.

   (I know the kinescope of the Stempel-Van Doren match from 1956 is still in existance, so that would leave only one other half-hour episode to find -- perhaps the video of the Snodgrass-Bloomgarden match from 1958 that ended with Bloomgarden winning a whopping $73,500 after the attempt to rig that game's outcome went awry is also still around.)


   Michael Brandenburg
   (But then, after all those Povitch episodes air again, I might start looking for that \"21\" pinball machine…)

[DrBear]

[quote name=\'Michael Brandenburg\' date=\'Jul 10 2003, 08:41 PM\']

   (I know the kinescope of the Stempel-Van Doren match from 1956 is still in existance, so that would leave only one other half-hour episode to find *snip*)
 [/quote]
 Well, a couple of years ago, I found a cheapo tape (the kind you find in supermarkets, at least that's where I found it) with an episode of 21 and one of the 64K Challenge.  Don't remember who, offhand, was on the 21 episode.

So there are more out there, I'm sure.

[Matt Ottinger]

Well, a couple of years ago, I found a cheapo tape (the kind you find in supermarkets, at least that's where I found it) with an episode of 21 and one of the 64K Challenge. Don't remember who, offhand, was on the 21 episode.  So there are more out there, I'm sure.

My impression is that a lot more of the old prime time game shows survive in b&w kinescopes than any of us may realize.  There's certainly evidence to suggest that things like Pantomime Quiz, 21, even obscurities like Bank on the Stars exist in larger numbers than what we traders have.  There's just so little commercial benefit to getting them out to the public that in many cases it's not even worth the expense of transferring them to a usable format.

[CherryPizza]

Ok, sorry about opening up an old thread (\"old\" in these days of internet technology meaning a week!), but...

I thought about this a couple of days after I read this thread, then was away from the internet for about a week, then it took a couple of days to get around to typing it up.

For some reason that I can't think of, the 1987 book about the US Wheel of Fortune made its way to the bargain bin in an Australian supermarket, and I bought a copy of it about 12 years ago. The first chapter discusses a general history of US game shows, and also has details about the 1950s scandals. It doesn't go into too much detail about the Van Doren affair, but does give a good general description of the scandals as a whole.

For those interested, I've put a couple of passages here

[That Don Guy]

If you're using Quiz Show as an authoritative source of the details of the Charles Van Doren story, I'm afraid you're going to look rather silly, as Redford took quite a few liberties with the facts in the name of entertainment.
Which is not to say I'm not recommending the film, it's excellent, but it fails pretty fantastically as a historical document.

MAD Magazine's version of the movie ended with a remark about how a movie about a game show that wasn't honest wasn't itself entirely honest.  (A couple of other liberties that the movie took: in reality, the \"On the Waterfront\"/\"Marty\" question would have given Stempel 21 and the win, but the miss resulted in a tie (the fourth tie, I think); also, the movie makes it look as if van Doren's appearance at the investigation hearing took place pretty much right after he was on the show, but in reality it was years later.)

One bit of trivia: GSN's one daytime episode of the Cullen TPIR includes a mention by Bill to watch van Doren compete against Nearing on that week's Twenty-One.

[familyfeudfan]

For 11 points and 21, can you name the person who created the set (set designer) for the original 21, the movie "Quiz show", the pilot from 1980 and the 2000 version.

[PeterMarshallFan]

[quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 08:38 PM\'] For 11 points and 21, can you name the person who created the set (set designer) for the original 21, the movie "Quiz show", the pilot from 1980 and the 2000 version. [/quote]
Original: Jack Landau

1982: I'd guess John C. Mula

Movie: Don't know

2000: Joe Stewart and John Shaffner

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 07:48 PM\'][quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 08:38 PM\'] For 11 points and 21, can you name the person who created the set (set designer) for the original 21, the movie "Quiz show", the pilot from 1980 and the 2000 version. [/quote]

Movie: Don't know
[/quote]
(whispering---yes I know it's rude, shut up) Tim Galvin

[familyfeudfan]

[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 07:48 PM\'][quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 08:38 PM\'] For 11 points and 21, can you name the person who created the set (set designer) for the original 21, the movie "Quiz show", the pilot from 1980 and the 2000 version. [/quote]
Original: Jack Landau

1982: I'd guess John C. Mula

Movie: Don't know

2000: Joe Stewart and John Shaffner[/quote]
Wow, how did you know that, I thought that know one would know the answer. You didn't even ask to take the third part last :)

[PeterMarshallFan]

[quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 09:01 PM\'] [quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 07:48 PM\'][quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 08:38 PM\'] For 11 points and 21, can you name the person who created the set (set designer) for the original 21, the movie "Quiz show", the pilot from 1980 and the 2000 version. [/quote]
Original: Jack Landau

1982: I'd guess John C. Mula

Movie: Don't know

2000: Joe Stewart and John Shaffner[/quote]
Wow, how did you know that, I thought that know one would know the answer. You didn't even ask to take the third part last [/quote]
It was easy....the original I knew because I recently saw THE 21 episode from 1956, B-E always used John C. Mula for their sets in the mid-late 70s and all of the 80s, and I was a fan of the 2000 version.

[familyfeudfan]

[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 08:04 PM\'] [quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 09:01 PM\'] [quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 07:48 PM\'][quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Feb 17 2004, 08:38 PM\'] For 11 points and 21, can you name the person who created the set (set designer) for the original 21, the movie "Quiz show", the pilot from 1980 and the 2000 version. [/quote]
Original: Jack Landau

1982: I'd guess John C. Mula

Movie: Don't know

2000: Joe Stewart and John Shaffner[/quote]
Wow, how did you know that, I thought that know one would know the answer. You didn't even ask to take the third part last :) [/quote]
It was easy....the original I knew because I recently saw THE 21 episode from 1956, B-E always used John C. Mula for their sets in the mid-late 70s and all of the 80s, and I was a fan of the 2000 version. [/quote]
Is Jack Landau still alive?