Jeopardy! -- Why Bother Watching?

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 08:08 AM\'] "Technical reasons" must be that the category is all visual, or something like that.  Whenever those categories pop up, I've noticed they're always taken in order.[/quote]
I've never been to a taping, but that's what I've noticed... Very likely, especially if they don't have five seperate VTR's in the back loaded and ready to go with the Clue Crew or celebrity bits.

I was under the impression the contestant co-ordinators "encouraged" them to take the clues "in order", but it wasn't complusory.

Always keep in mind that what the coordinators suggest the players do in the name of good television and what is actually sound playing strategy are often two entirely different things. I refer you to the advice the contestant coordinators give WOF contestants, which include such brilliant strategic gems as "buy lots of vowels".

Also, when a contestant controls a category and plays it in order, the camera usually cuts to a closeup of the monitor, so the camera must be shooting it and ready to be put on the air.

....or, that whole shot is a computer generated thing they insert in post production. Granted. the shot is done that way to help keep up the "flow" of a category, but it would be a bitch for the director to "assume" that's going to happen and then have to hurry to another shot if the contestant screws him. Far easier camera blocking if they always go to the wide shot of the board, and cut & cover where necessary or desired in post. (The edit would take no time at all anyhow, your audio track is good to go, you just overlay the graphics. Graphics are already in the Chyron (assuming they save the game material for a length of time, and I'm sure they do)...two edits and you're done.)

[Frank15]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 10:35 AM\'] I refer you to the advice the contestant coordinators give WOF contestants, which include such brilliant strategic gems as "buy lots of vowels". [/quote]
 Um... isn't that good strategy, though?  I mean, a random vowel is much more likely to appear in the puzzle than a random consonant, so if you have the money, and do not know of a consonant that is extremely likely to be in the puzzle, does it not behoove you to choose a vowel over a consonant?  At least until the speed round, where it's more likely to help your competition, anyway.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Frank15\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 09:29 AM\'] [quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 10:35 AM\'] I refer you to the advice the contestant coordinators give WOF contestants, which include such brilliant strategic gems as "buy lots of vowels". [/quote]
Um... isn't that good strategy, though?  I mean, a random vowel is much more likely to appear in the puzzle than a random consonant, so if you have the money, and do not know of a consonant that is extremely likely to be in the puzzle, does it not behoove you to choose a vowel over a consonant?  At least until the speed round, where it's more likely to help your competition, anyway. [/quote]
Generally, by the time I've gone through the common consonants, I have the puzzle solved. So why do I want to reveal the vowels to my opponents, when I already know where they are?

We had a thread on here from someone who was on WOF talking about the bad advice the contestant coordinators were giving. Or was it Hollywood Squares? Brandon, do you remember?

[Frank15]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 02:22 PM\'] Generally, by the time I've gone through the common consonants, I have the puzzle solved. So why do I want to reveal the vowels to my opponents, when I already know where they are? [/quote]
 Fair point.  Then again, it seems most contestants solve the puzzle the instant they know it, no matter how little money they have.

And then again, again, if you've already called the common consonants, and you don't know the puzzle, certainly it's a better idea to try a few vowels than to try and hope you can get lucky picking some of the tougher consonants to guess.

[Brandon Brooks]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 02:22 PM\'] We had a thread on here from someone who was on WOF talking about the bad advice the contestant coordinators were giving. Or was it Hollywood Squares? Brandon, do you remember? [/quote]
 I recall the conversation, and think it had to have been WOF.

I found the contestant coordinators for HSq to be unusually helpful.  (And I don't say this just to compliment them.)  They went through many mock games and showed the various strategies one could use by picking a certain square.  It was almost as if they were encouraging contestants to break their bank.

Brandon Brooks

[MaryM7643]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jun 18 2004, 12:18 PM\'] There will be occasions when, for techincal reasons, the players are told before a round begins that one particular category must be played from top to bottom.  (We had such a warning in my game Monday.)  Even then, you could leave the category and come back to it later, but you had to go back to the next clue in order.  

 [/quote]
 What happens if you forget, and don't go in order?

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Brandon Brooks\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 03:27 PM\'] [quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 02:22 PM\'] We had a thread on here from someone who was on WOF talking about the bad advice the contestant coordinators were giving. Or was it Hollywood Squares? Brandon, do you remember? [/quote]
I recall the conversation, and think it had to have been WOF.

I found the contestant coordinators for HSq to be unusually helpful.  (And I don't say this just to compliment them.)  They went through many mock games and showed the various strategies one could use by picking a certain square.  It was almost as if they were encouraging contestants to break their bank.

Brandon Brooks [/quote]
 No, wait, it WAS H^2, and I remember why. Didn't you say the contestant coordinators were offering advice as to why to pick the squares OTHER than the corners and the center? I remember something related to them giving horrible advice from a tic tac toe standpoint.

[SplitSecond]

Chris, do keep in mind that good tic-tac-toe strategy does not necessarily make good Hollywood Squares strategy.  On Hollywood Squares, you must always factor in the possibility of missing a question and (usually) ceding the square to your opponent.  Therefore, if you were to start on a fresh board and your opponent picked the upper-left square and got the question right, it would behoove you - contrary to traditional tic-tac-toe strategy - to pick the middle-right square or the bottom-center square.

Class, can anyone tell me why?

[CarShark]

[quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 08:33 PM\'] Chris, do keep in mind that good tic-tac-toe strategy does not necessarily make good Hollywood Squares strategy.  On Hollywood Squares, you must always factor in the possibility of missing a question and (usually) ceding the square to your opponent.  Therefore, if you were to start on a fresh board and your opponent picked the upper-left square and got the question right, it would behoove you - contrary to traditional tic-tac-toe strategy - to pick the middle-right square or the bottom-center square.

Class, can anyone tell me why? [/quote]
 ...Um, is it because if you picked any of the other squares and missed, your opponent is one question away from a win, but if you lost the middle-right and bottom-center it wouldn't hurt so much?

[DrBear]

To go back to the original post ... let's just say that today's show proved that even with a buzzsaw returning champion, J! is certainly worth watching.

[Brandon Brooks]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 08:37 PM\'] ...Um, is it because if you picked any of the other squares and missed, your opponent is one question away from a win, but if you lost the middle-right and bottom-center it wouldn't hurt so much? [/quote]
Bingo.  And to Chris:

No, wait, it WAS H^2, and I remember why. Didn't you say the contestant coordinators were offering advice as to why to pick the squares OTHER than the corners and the center? I remember something related to them giving horrible advice from a tic tac toe standpoint.

No, no, no.  To start off, they recommended never picking a middle square (excluding the center, of course) unless you were looking for the secret square, which was in the tourney's case added to your cumulative total, and helped to determine if you moved on to the next round.

Brandon Brooks

[Steve McClellan]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 12:22 PM\'][quote name=\'Frank15\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 09:29 AM\']Um... isn't [buying lots of vowels] good strategy, though?  I mean, a random vowel is much more likely to appear in the puzzle than a random consonant, so if you have the money, and do not know of a consonant that is extremely likely to be in the puzzle, does it not behoove you to choose a vowel over a consonant?  At least until the speed round, where it's more likely to help your competition, anyway. [/quote]
Generally, by the time I've gone through the common consonants, I have the puzzle solved. So why do I want to reveal the vowels to my opponents, when I already know where they are?[/quote]
My strategy includes buying lots of vowels, for a different reason. I pick one consonant (a T, unless the category warrants otherwise), then start picking away at the vowels until I have the puzzle solved (or at least a word or two thereof). I think this is a significantly safer strategy than going through a bunch of consonants, which *are* less likely to appear in the puzzle.

[Steve McClellan]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 06:37 PM\'][quote name=\'SplitSecond\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 08:33 PM\'] Chris, do keep in mind that good tic-tac-toe strategy does not necessarily make good Hollywood Squares strategy.  On Hollywood Squares, you must always factor in the possibility of missing a question and (usually) ceding the square to your opponent.  Therefore, if you were to start on a fresh board and your opponent picked the upper-left square and got the question right, it would behoove you - contrary to traditional tic-tac-toe strategy - to pick the middle-right square or the bottom-center square.

Class, can anyone tell me why? [/quote]
...Um, is it because if you picked any of the other squares and missed, your opponent is one question away from a win, but if you lost the middle-right and bottom-center it wouldn't hurt so much?[/quote]
Actually, despite what common sense may tell you, the center square is of similar strategical merit. Around the time I auditioned for the show, I studied its strategy thoroughly, and found that while the center square is the riskier option in this case, the rewards of having it can jusify that risk. Either move is strategically valid, despite what Fern told the contestants.

[JasonA1]

I pick one consonant...then start picking away at the vowels until I have the puzzle solved

I have a problem with this strategy for a few reasons. You drop a decent sum of cash if the vowels occur only here and there, or you just plum don't know it. It's a lot safer to your score to call common consonants, especially considering the number of large puzzles WoF uses that lend themselves to them.

And if you pick off all the vowels and control passes on via bankrupt, LAT or otherwise, you just opened the door for the others and saved them money. I usually pick off a few consonants, call a vowel I know is there, and hope it occurs elsewhere to help me out. Then, with the solution at hand, I can spin according to wheel location, total scores, and all of those factors.

-Jason

[Steve McClellan]

[quote name=\'JasonA1\' date=\'Jun 21 2004, 09:58 PM\']

I pick one consonant...then start picking away at the vowels until I have the puzzle solved

I have a problem with this strategy for a few reasons. You drop a decent sum of cash if the vowels occur only here and there, or you just plum don't know it. It's a lot safer to your score to call common consonants, especially considering the number of large puzzles WoF uses that lend themselves to them.[/quote]
Mathematically, there's no way to drop more than $1250 per puzzle on vowels. Hardly a strategy-altering sum. Even then, needing more than three is a rarity. I think it's better for your score to know the solution before doing the bulk of the spinning. If you land on $3500, would you rather hope there's an L in the puzzle, or go with the knowledge that there are four Cs? Plus, even the most common consonants are significantly less likely to be in the puzzle than vowels like A and E.

And if you pick off all the vowels and control passes on via bankrupt, LAT or otherwise, you just opened the door for the others and saved them money.

Again, vowels are not that expensive. I've heard there's something in the rules about it, but seriously, how hard is it to pay attention to how far the wheel goes when you spin it, then make a slight adjustment to avoid one of the 2-3 unfavorable spaces?