Bob Stewart....

[Jimmy Owen]

[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 11:41 AM\'] [quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 11:08 AM\'] When they took away the board and the stars and called it Double Talk I didn't like it so much. [/quote]
With all due respect to all two of Henry Polic II's fans, the host wasn't exactly a help either (now watch as I get inundated with tons of support for one of WEBSTER's lesser lights ;-) ).

Doug [/quote]
 Do you remember what show replaced "Double Talk" on the ABC daytime sked?  WEBSTER!!, so at least Henry kept the timeslot.

[The Ol' Guy]

It just goes to show a good concept doesn't need a lot of glitz. Chain Reaction is little more than vertical Password, and the Password set was very spartan, too. Remember the time Password was introduced on I've Got A Secret and how dinky the players desk was..and they used it in the show's early days? They just picked it up and brought it on stage. What a hoot!
I was trying to stay in the middle on Three On A Match - ok game, simple play, and Cullen was the shining star in that one. I agree Bob had some good ideas...I just wished they weren't such obvious re-hashes. There has to be a bit more of a hook in a format if it's built on familiar ground. About 3 episodes of the Jackpot takeoff with the Hollywood theme and I was done. Riddlers wasn't a bad re-do in that the game became a race between teams instead of individuals playing, so I could have gone with that (even debated on making a Riddlers "home game"), but I think Dave Letterman would have burned out or tired the audience too quickly as the host. A Mike Darow-type would have been fine.
By the way..maybe Riddlers could have put two celebs on each team, sandwiched between three civilians? Put some laughs and glitz on both teams?

[chris319]

There was an article in "Variety" during the first half of 1980 that listed the budgets of all the NBC game shows on the air at that time.

We must find that article!

[uncamark]

It must be stated that when Bob Stewart came to G-T, supposedly the company was at a creative low.  The biggest new G-T series of the late 50s-early 60s--"TTTT," "TPIR" and "Password"--were all his creations and each one was innovative--the first play-along panel show, the first game show where anyone could participate and not worry about getting hit with a pie in the face and the celeb game that broke up the panels.  He helped keep the company going and set the tone for the post-quiz scandal game show.

Needless to say, I don't blame him for wanting to leave the G-T fold--he probably didn't want Mark Goodson taking credit for everything he did.  He was lucky enough to come up with "Pyramid," which was the smash hit that made the rest of his career possible.

And for me "Pyramid" and his G-T hits are more than enough to ensure his place in the pantheon of game show producers.

[The Ol' Guy]

..maybe one of the experts here can clear something up for me. After reading Monty Hall's book some time back, Hall claims he invented the root games that became Password and Match Game. He supposedly submitted the ideas to GT and when they did not respond right away, Hall went on to other things. After reading about the coming of Password in the trades, he called Bob Stewart, who told this story - when Hall didn't follow up on the proposals, they were given to Stewart for refinement. He polished the game into the Password we know. When Stewart suggested to Goodson that Hall be cut in, the reply was, "Freud was around long before Monty Hall." I know Stewart gets credit for Password, but if Hall's story is true, I would only want to give Stewart credit for refining a format already in the halls (sorry) at GT, vs. walking in with it, as some claim. I'm all for giving credit to Bob for developing some great formats, but I tend to want to give Bob refinement instead of invention credit for Password. Anyone with the straight dope out there?

[Jimmy Owen]

[quote name=\'The Ol' Guy\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 03:07 PM\'] ..maybe one of the experts here can clear something up for me. After reading Monty Hall's book some time back, Hall claims he invented the root games that became Password and Match Game. He supposedly submitted the ideas to GT and when they did not respond right away, Hall went on to other things. After reading about the coming of Password in the trades, he called Bob Stewart, who told this story - when Hall didn't follow up on the proposals, they were given to Stewart for refinement. He polished the game into the Password we know. When Stewart suggested to Goodson that Hall be cut in, the reply was, "Freud was around long before Monty Hall." I know Stewart gets credit for Password, but if Hall's story is true, I would only want to give Stewart credit for refining a format already in the halls (sorry) at GT, vs. walking in with it, as some claim. I'm all for giving credit to Bob for developing some great formats, but I tend to want to give Bob refinement instead of invention credit for Password. Anyone with the straight dope out there? [/quote]
I have that book as well, though it is in a box somewhere with a bunch of other paperbacks.  IIRC, Monty got the idea from someone else (Nat Ligerman, I think?) and then gave it to Stewart.  Since Monty was able to sell NBC on "Your First Impression," which was a modification of the idea and was a two-and-a-half-year success, he let bygones be bygones.

[chris319]

Nat Ligerman may have come up with the original idea of a word-association game on TV and brought it to Monty who brought it to Bob Stewart who brought it to Goodson, but according to the account in the book "The Box", the game that debuted on CBS with Allen Ludden was a completely different game from the one Bob Stewart was originally working with.

Give Bob Stewart credit for TPIR, based on a game called "Auctioneer".

Give Bob Stewart credit for TTTT, which resulted in a lawsuit from John Guedel Productions.

Give Frank Wayne credit for The Match Game as it came to be known and loved on NBC.

All of these shows had derivatives at one time or another, with varying degrees of success:

TPIR -> Say When!

TTTT -> Play Your Hunch

Password -> Snap Judgement (and Pyramid, a B.S. show)

Match Game -> Family Feud

[Matt Ottinger]

On the subject of people taking credit for one format or another, there's an interesting and surprising listing on the TV Tome page forWhat's My Line? that credits one Hal Schaffel for coming up with the show's original idea.  That's not a name I'm familiar with, and Mr. Schaffel's glowing biography from which that credit comes appears to have been written by a family member.  Anybody know this guy?

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 04:25 PM\'] (and Pyramid, a B.S. show) [/quote]
 Hey! (gasp) How dare you say such a thing about Pyramid! Unless of course, you're talking about the current version. :-)

(end sarcasm, because I know someone is going to think I really thought Chris was putting down Pyramid)

[TLEberle]

Since Family Feud was born from the Audience Match from MG, could you also say that the survey portion of Card Sharks was derived from the Feud?

Travis

[chris319]

[quote name=\'TLEberle\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 11:55 PM\'] Since Family Feud was born from the Audience Match from MG, could you also say that the survey portion of Card Sharks was derived from the Feud? [/quote]
Not really. FF questions involve a list of several answers. CS questions consist of a question which can only be answered one way or another (generally yes/no), with contestants estimating the percentage of respondents who answered a certain way.

Glad you remember when CS had polling questions!

[chris319]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Jun 28 2004, 07:33 PM\'] On the subject of people taking credit for one format or another, there's an interesting and surprising listing on the TV Tome page forWhat's My Line? that credits one Hal Schaffel for coming up with the show's original idea.  That's not a name I'm familiar with, and Mr. Schaffel's glowing biography from which that credit comes appears to have been written by a family member.  Anybody know this guy? [/quote]
I don't have Gil Fates' book at my fingertips, but Bob Bach has alway been regarded as the creator of record, and Goodson supposedly rewarded him with lifelong employment as long as he didn't destroy the illusion that M.G. created it.

[sshuffield70]

Concerning FF/CS

I understand why one might think the two weren't actually related.  However, both shows used 100 people, which leads me to believe CS was actually a spin-off of FF.

[tvwxman]

[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 29 2004, 08:21 AM\'] However, both shows used 100 people, which leads me to believe CS was actually a spin-off of FF. [/quote]
 Your logic makes no sense to imply CS was spun off from FF.

Card Sharks and Gambit both used playing cards. Is Card Sharks a spin off of Gambit? No.

High Rollers and Winner Takes All both had jump in questions. Is High Rollers a spin off? No.

Price is Right and Hollywood Squares both have studio audiences in the same studio. Is Hollywood Squares a spin off? No.

[Steve Gavazzi]

[quote name=\'sshuffield70\' date=\'Jun 29 2004, 09:21 AM\'] However, both shows used 100 people, which leads me to believe CS was actually a spin-off of FF. [/quote]
 It leads me to believe that someone noticed 100 was a nice, round number.