Network Questions?

[familyfeudfan]

I have 2 questions (Somewhat off topic):

1)Their has been a couple of network name changes in the last couple of years. The New TNN to Spike TV, Game show network to GSN. But does any one know why TBS Superstation became just TBS.

2)Also how is it that TCM doesn't air any commercials and survives but AMC has to?

Thanks.

[Kevin Prather]

[quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Jul 14 2004, 09:07 PM\'] does any one know why TBS Superstation became just TBS. [/quote]
 I'm not 100% on this, but wasn't it TBS before it was TBS Superstation?

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'whoserman\' date=\'Jul 14 2004, 11:15 PM\'] [quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Jul 14 2004, 09:07 PM\'] does any one know why TBS Superstation became just TBS. [/quote]
I'm not 100% on this, but wasn't it TBS before it was TBS Superstation? [/quote]
 Yeah, that was up until about the mid-90s. I think they were considered WTBS Superstation in the 80s though?

[Fedya]

[quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Jul 14 2004, 11:07 PM\'] 2)Also how is it that TCM doesn't air any commercials and survives but AMC has to? [/quote]
 Isn't Turner Classic part of AOLTimeWarnerClearChannelWestinghouseVivendiUniversalFremantle (okay, I think a few of those at the end haven't merged... yet), so they own the rights to the movies in the library?

What I don't understand is how Columbia Pictures (the movies) ended up in the hands of AOL-Time-Warner, while Columbia Pictures Television ended up in the hands of Sony.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jul 14 2004, 09:25 PM\'] Yeah, that was up until about the mid-90s. I think they were considered WTBS Superstation in the 80s though? [/quote]
 Lemme see if I can do this accurately.

At first, it was just a regular TV station, WTBS in Atlanta. Then it started getting carriage on cable systems, and Turner coined the concept of the "superstation". The reason they were a "superstation" and not a full-blown network had to do with FCC regs involving providing over-the-air access or something along those lines. Eventually, either the FCC deregulated or TBS decided that the advantages of registering as a full-blown cable network outweighed what advantages they were receiving with the "superstation" designation, and that's where they are now.

[rugrats1]

Also how is it that TCM doesn't air any commercials and survives but AMC has to?

AMC isn't required to carry ads, but they chose to do so.

What I don't understand is how Columbia Pictures (the movies) ended up in the hands of AOL-Time-Warner, while Columbia Pictures Television ended up in the hands of Sony.

I think the Turner networks (or, at least, TCM) only bought the rights to show the Columbia films on TV -- Sony owns both Columbia Pictures TV and movies. It's the pre-1986 MGM and United Artists films and TV shows that are owned by Time Warner.

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jul 15 2004, 01:20 AM\'] [quote name=\'fostergray82\' date=\'Jul 14 2004, 09:25 PM\'] Yeah, that was up until about the mid-90s. I think they were considered WTBS Superstation in the 80s though? [/quote]
Lemme see if I can do this accurately.

At first, it was just a regular TV station, WTBS in Atlanta. Then it started getting carriage on cable systems, and Turner coined the concept of the "superstation". The reason they were a "superstation" and not a full-blown network had to do with FCC regs involving providing over-the-air access or something along those lines. Eventually, either the FCC deregulated or TBS decided that the advantages of registering as a full-blown cable network outweighed what advantages they were receiving with the "superstation" designation, and that's where they are now. [/quote]
Mostly right, based on all of the Turner biographies I've read over the years. :-)  The "superstation" name came after WTBS had been getting regional coverage via microwave distribution for some time; once it was made available nationwide by satellite, Turner called it "the superstation that serves the nation" and thus the term was born.

As for why TBS became a regular network, your second guess is on the mark -- the advantages of becoming a network were too great to ignore.  TBS couldn't legally make any money from cable systems as a pure superstation; cable systems paid to carry it, but that money went to a copyright tribunal, not to TBS.  Also, cable systems can't insert local ads on a superstation.  When TBS became a cable network, both obstacles were removed.

WTBS still exists today as a local station that just happens to carry most, but not all, of the same shows TBS carries, plus some local programming to fulfill "community service" requirements.

[Ian Wallis]

WTBS still exists today as a local station that just happens to carry most, but not all, of the same shows TBS carries, plus some local programming to fulfill "community service" requirements.

WTBS is still carried over the air in the Atlanta area on Channel 17.  When Ted Turner bought the station, its calls were WTCG.  (I think prior to that they were WJRJ).  In fact, the calls stayed WTCG until at least the late '70s.  It first went on the satellite in 1976, and cable systems across the US (and later Canada) started picking it up.  

Soon, several other "superstations" joined it, most notably WGN in Chicago and WOR in New York.  For a while, the programming that was carried was the exact same as the over the air station.

In 1989, a rule called "syndex" was introduced, which meant that stations picking up syndicated reruns had exclusive rights to those shows in their markets, and any importation of the same programs via cable had to be blacked out.  (Stations were most upset about this in the fall of 1988 when "The Cosby Show" hit syndication - it was carried on WOR superstation also).

These days, the national feeds for WGN and TBS usually differ from the over-the-air version in the cities in which they originate.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'familyfeudfan\' date=\'Jul 15 2004, 12:07 AM\'] 1)Their has been a couple of network name changes in the last couple of years. The New TNN to Spike TV, Game show network to GSN. But does any one know why TBS Superstation became just TBS.
 [/quote]
 While the histories of TBS are certainly interesting, the far simpler answer to this question is that the name change is simply a marketing move.  The "Superstation" designation is a leftover from when they wanted to be known as a local station that served the entire country.  That term is probably considered old-fashioned now.

2)Also how is it that TCM doesn't air any commercials and survives but AMC has to?

The two stations aren't nearly as alike as people seem to think.  TCM is run relatively cheaply and relies primarily on catalog programming already owned by the parent company.  AMC is much more ambitious with its original programming and -- to original fans' dismay -- pays to acquire much more recent films that younger fans will have, you know, heard of.  So AMC has a lot more expenses, and somebody just decided at some point that it was worth it to them to become at least partially advertiser supported.

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jul 15 2004, 08:49 AM\'] In 1989, a rule called "syndex" was introduced,[/quote]
Technically, reintroduced; it had been in place some years earlier.  To bring this back on topic (somewhat!), I remember first getting cable in 1980 and wondering why The Joker's Wild was blacked out on WOR while Tic Tac Dough wasn't.  As the program director of WOKR -- which carried TJW locally at the time -- was nice enough to explain to me in a letter, WOKR exercised its syndex right while the station that carried TTD chose not to.  Not long afterward, the law either expired or was overturned and I was able to see both shows.

These days, the national feeds for WGN and TBS usually differ from the over-the-air version in the cities in which they originate.

"Usually" is the key word; there was a thread on digitalhomecanada.com a few months ago on this.  For some reason Expressvu and a few Canadian cable companies were actually uplinking the local WTBS signal for a time, prompting subscribers to wonder why the schedule was different from what they expected.  The same companies soon switched back to the national version, without (IIRC) explaining why the change was made in the first place.

[rmfromfla]

Another good example is WGN.  Since locally in Chicago, they are also a
 WB affiliate, so they show all their programs on channel 9, but since they
 are also a national superstation, they can't broadcast WB programs all
 over the country because they would be competing with the local affiliates,
 hence movies (or other programs) everywhere else.

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'rmfromfla\' date=\'Jul 15 2004, 09:31 AM\']Another good example is WGN.  Since locally in Chicago, they are also a
 WB affiliate, so they show all their programs on channel 9, but since they
 are also a national superstation, they can't broadcast WB programs all
 over the country because they would be competing with the local affiliates,
 hence movies (or other programs) everywhere else.[/quote]
Well, WGN did air WB programming on the national feed initially--but when both some affiliates complained about it and The WB started the 100+ Markets scheme, WB programming was blacked out of the national WGN.  The 100+ Markets scheme is where cable systems in smaller markets get a turnkey 24-hour channel branded "The WB" and the systems (often in collaboration with a broadcast station) can insert commercials, channel number, location and phony call letters to make it seem local.

Meanwhile, this September WGN will be airing in Chicago Kids WB! programming for the first time--they chose not to go with it initially and WCIU had been airing it early in the morning weekdays and around mid-morning Sundays.  WGN will put on Kids WB! after school weekdays and on Sunday mornings.  I expect Robert Feder of the Sun-Times to start pressuring WGN to bring Bozo back.

And as I understood it, AMC had to do what it did because its carriage fees to systems were among the highest in the industry, due to studios jacking up rights fees even before they got into buying more recent titles.  And since the only advertisers they could attract with classic films were the makers of Hoveround and Wilfred Brimley's diabetes pills supplier, you know what they had to do next.

[rugrats1]

Meanwhile, this September WGN will be airing in Chicago Kids WB! programming for the first time--they chose not to go with it initially and WCIU had been airing it early in the morning weekdays and around mid-morning Sundays. WGN will put on Kids WB! after school weekdays and on Sunday mornings.

When the national WGN had WB programming, Kids WB was part of the national WGN's schedule, though the Chicagoland version never carried it. Nationally, Kids WB bumped WGN's morning newscast on weekdays and some syndicated programming on Sundays (the national WGN carried KWB's weekend schedule one day later).