GSN wasn't the first to "pitch the niche"

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'CaseyAbell\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 03:12 PM\']You might call that playing with house money. Or a REAL play-along factor.

Wouldn't you know, Playboy's Love & Sex Test did make it into EOTVGS, third edition. One guy even put it on his resume under "professional costumer work," which for some sick reason strikes me as funny:

http://spectrum.troyst.edu/~jspatton/vitae.htm[/quote]
It's a living.

I have to snarkily chuckle of the name of the production company of said program--"Little Joey, Inc."  I never heard that called by *that* name before.  

[Dbacksfan12]

[quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 01:47 PM\'] You could argue though, that a sporting event though it is televised, is technically not a show to begin with. [/quote]
 Ever heard of "Wide World of Sports"?

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Dsmith\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 06:57 PM\'] [quote name=\'adamjk\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 01:47 PM\'] You could argue though, that a sporting event though it is televised, is technically not a show to begin with. [/quote]
Ever heard of "Wide World of Sports"? [/quote]
 I really didn't want to get dragged down into this....

Wide World of Sports is a poor example because for the most part, it's just more coverage of events that would happen whether they were on TV or not.  It just happens to be different sports each week.

Network sports departments do create their own made-for-TV events.  People my age remember when ABC started doing The Superstars, which was their "serious" version of Battle of the Network Stars with professional athletes instead of actors.  More recently, the various Skins Games and prime time events that Tiger's management produces each year are a lot closer to the GS/NGS dividing line than the more traditional sports coverage.

[CarShark]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 02:03 PM\'][quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 11:54 AM\'] OK. The Super Bowl fits the definition of a game show. So? Is there something wrong with that?


[/quote]
With the Super Bowl? No. But because it fits your definition of a game show, it shows clearly that there is something very wrong with your definition.
[/quote]
OK, what's wrong with it then? Just how would you specify game shows to exclude WSoBJ and CB and ED while including what everyone usually calls game shows?

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 06:33 PM\'] OK, what's wrong with it then? [/quote]
 Jesus, do you have to work to miss the point by this much?

What's wrong with your definition is that the Super Bowl is not a game show. Even Casey Abell would agree with that.

Yet, by the strictest interpretation of your definition, it qualifies. Therefore it is a poor definition.

And I never claimed to have a good one, mainly because I think you can find semantic issues with pretty much any way you attempt to define it. It's the same way the FCC defines obcenity...I won't try to tell you what it is, but know it when I see it.

[CarShark]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 08:49 PM\'] [quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 06:33 PM\'] OK, what's wrong with it then? [/quote]
Jesus, do you have to work to miss the point by this much?

What's wrong with your definition is that the Super Bowl is not a game show. Even Casey Abell would agree with that.

Yet, by the strictest interpretation of your definition, it qualifies. Therefore it is a poor definition.

And I never claimed to have a good one, mainly because I think you can find semantic issues with pretty much any way you attempt to define it. It's the same way the FCC defines obcenity...I won't try to tell you what it is, but know it when I see it. [/quote]
 In other words, you can't do it, and the definition is purely subjective. Fine. If that works for you, roll with it. By the way, this wasn't my definition. That came straight from the dictionary. You don't like it? Take it up with Merriam-Webster and the bajillion other sources that say the same thing.

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 24 2004, 07:09 PM\'] In other words, you can't do it, and the definition is purely subjective. Fine. If that works for you, roll with it.


 [/quote]
...and that any attempt to objectify it is an exercise in futility, but other'n that, yeah, you pretty much got it right on. Well done.

By the way, this wasn't my definition. That came straight from the dictionary.

Yet, you cited it to back up your argument, so I would suggest you find some other excuse besides blaming the source for the fact that your argument was soundly and completely refuted. You adopted it to defend your point, you take ownership.

Take it up with Merriam-Webster and the bajillion other sources that say the same thing.

Yeah, it's called "not taking everything you read as gospel." You might look into it. Even reference sources are wrong sometimes.

[DrBear]

Just to stir the pot...if "made for TV" is a factor...

Which of these is a game show?
1. U.S. Open Golf.
2. The Skins Game, which would not exist if not for TV.
3. Hole in one - or two (TPIR)

[CaseyAbell]

Hey, it's nice to be mentioned in the same post with Jesus...

Anyhoo, the great is-it-or-is-it-not-a-game-show debate is the perfect filler for this board and the GSN board. The debate can never be resolved because the definition of "game show" can never be agreed on. So we argue and argue, and Matt and Chris get nice traffic figures.

Though I think it's impossible to define "game show," it IS possible to talk about what the concept might mean to the average TV viewer. We can all probably agree that if the great unwashed couch potato sat down (or lay down) in front of the tube and watched an episode of Jeopardy, said potato would identify the Trebek epic as a "game show." Okay, some wise-ass might chirp "great sitcom!" but we'll exclude wise-asses.

There are zillions of shows like that. Millionaire, Pyramid, Wheel of Fortune, Family Feud, Lingo...you might call them the core group. Just about everybody would agree that, yes, these are what we think of when we hear the term "game show."

Trouble is (and there's always trouble in this vale of tears) a lot of shows sorta look like the core group but trail off into other kinds of TV shows. Love Connection, You Bet Your Life, Dating Game, Newlywed Game, I've Got a Secret and other such heavy-on-the-conversation-light-on-the-gameplay opuses wander towards talk shows. There's still some "gameplay" but the main focus is on witty (let's hope) banter among the participants.

Game shows with physical stunts, and even the poker and blackjack shows according to some posters, start looking like sports. In fact, a lot of American Gladiators or Dog Eat Dog looks more like sports to me than some stuff in the Olympics. Did you know that badminton is an Olympic sport?

Some game shows feature brief (or sometimes longer) showbizzy performances by the contestants. We're starting to head toward variety shows or talent contests here.

Then there's the dreaded "reality" category, a.k.a. "reality crap" on the GSN board. When this moniker isn't just tossed around as a term of abuse, we can see how the line between reality shows and game shows gets very blurry sometimes. The Mole sure looks like a game show much of the time, but there's enough focus on personal interaction among the contestants instead of the gameplay that the show qualifies as "reality"...I think. OTOH, Street Smarts hauls some "real" street life into the proceedings, but it lands well inside the game show category...I think.

Of course, TV producers often try for a show that blends different genres into a unique and gotta-watch-it and just wonderful program for your viewing pleasure. So we're always gonna get these debates because often the blurring of genres is completely intentional.

Which does help to fill this board.

[Jimmy Owen]

In the 50's there were at least three kinds of "competition" shows: Game shows, quiz shows and panel shows.  The scandals made the word "quiz" a no-no, and after the big three panels left CBS, they kinda became lumped with "game shows."  Everything became a "game show." So there are many shades of gray (grey?) in the discussion.

[CarShark]

By the way, this wasn't my definition. That came straight from the dictionary.

Yet, you cited it to back up your argument, so I would suggest you find some other excuse besides blaming the source for the fact that your argument was soundly and completely refuted. You adopted it to defend your point, you take ownership.

Soundly refuted? Not even remotely close. None of the replies to my post said anything besides, "Yeah? What about this?" If you don't want to say Blackjack or any other show is a game show, fine, but arguing against a universal definition isn't very convincing. Mighty funny that if someone wanted the definition of any other word, people would accept it, but once you cross into "game show territory," everyone seems to be in a hurry to exclude things that fall outside their own comfort zone. I tried to add some objectivity to the conversation, but people are just too resistant to accept that their own personal definition could be wrong. I used to think that WSoBJ was a casino tournament only, but looking at the definition for myself, it seemed silly to me to just say, "Well, it's still not a game show," even though it fits. Just because you haven't thought of something as a game show before doesn't make it right.

[Don Howard]

[quote name=\'STYDfan\' date=\'Aug 25 2004, 01:37 PM\'] Just because you haven't thought of something as a game show before doesn't make it right. [/quote]
 You tell 'em, baby. Just back me up when I explain why Face The Nation is a game show, thereby making Bob Schieffer a game show host, Gloria Borger a game show hostess, John Wilcox a game show announcer and Jim Bohannon a game show sub-announcer.
Also, Bonanza was a soap opera because of that Adam/Laura/Will triangle. And you know what I'm talking about.

[dzinkin]

[quote name=\'Don Howard\' date=\'Aug 25 2004, 02:53 PM\']You tell 'em, baby. Just back me up when I explain why Face The Nation is a game show, thereby making Bob Schieffer a game show host, Gloria Borger a game show hostess, John Wilcox a game show announcer and Jim Bohannon a game show sub-announcer.[/quote]
Actually, Gloria left Face the Nation a while ago.  She's now co-hosting CNBC's game show Capital Report.

[uncamark]

For purposes of this board, I tend to go back to Chris C.'s basic definition (paraphrased by me):  A game show is an unjudged test of knowledge, skill or intuition for a reward of some sort (which for purposes of UK panel shows can be as little as the hearty handshake and warm round of applause from the studio audience) presented as a television program.  This definition was used to exclude "Survivor" and "American Idol" from the game show category (but include "The Amazing Race" and "Fear Factor").

As for the current GSN original flagships, the fact that the blackjack and dodgeball shows are both presented in sporting event trappings with the hosts acting as commentators instead of as hosts would keep me from categorizing them as game shows.  But on the other hand, you could say the same thing about "American Gladiators" or "Almost Anything Goes," and they're both considered game shows.

At this point, Chris L.'s use of the Supreme Court definition of obscenity sounds the most logical.  I think I know what a game show is--and the poker, blackjack and dodgeball shows aren't game shows.  IMHO.

[Dbacksfan12]

Just because you haven't thought of something as a game show before doesn't make it right.

Your definition of game show is so far out there that Brian Henke looks more intellegent. You really love stirring the pot, don't you?

A game show, according to the Dictionary of Mark is a program with an emcee with contestants competing to win prizes.