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Author Topic: Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?  (Read 4639 times)

cmjb13

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« on: October 28, 2004, 10:53:14 AM »
Got me thinking...

For a show like TPIR, it's important to get a taping done in a reasonable amount of time (Preferably on time).

While a show like Weakest Link can take forever to tape just 1 60 minute episode.

Is there a cost issue difference between the two (renting studio space), or is it something unbeknownst to us?
« Last Edit: October 28, 2004, 10:54:03 AM by cmjb13 »
Enjoy lots and lots of backstage TPIR photos and other fun stuff here. And yes, I did park in Syd Vinnedge's parking spot at CBS

Matt Ottinger

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2004, 11:45:03 AM »
This will be a great question for Randy, since he's done both shows.

Still, mostly it's just a question of efficiency.  If you're ABLE to get the show done quickly, it's certainly in your best, cost-effective interest to do so.  If you've been to a taping, you know that Weakest Link has a lot of complications that can slow production down, and that's just a cost of doing business.  

Classics like TPIR, Wheel and Jeopardy have their roots in the seventies model of getting five shows done in real time and going home.  Even though the hour-long TPIR obviously doesn't do five a day, there's still a mentality that it's better to keep things moving.
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tvrandywest

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2004, 12:13:52 PM »
Thanks Matt. I'll pontificate!

So which show costs more to get on the air... TPiR with its streamlined production day, or WL with its marathon tapings? Surprise: "Price" is pricier! More on that in a moment.

There are huge cost differences behind the production of different shows, even shows of the same general genre such as TPiR and WL. What's important isn't how many hours are spent in the studio, but that each show spends not a minute more in the studio or in post-production than the time for which each was budgeted. It's all about knowing what will be entailed in producing a show before the tape rolls. The production needs of every program are determined way before the show is given its final green light. Each is budgeted accordingly. Then the trick is staying within that budget. In some cases the overages can come out of the producer's pocket, cutting into his profit.

So, the 12 hour tape days for some shows are anticipated and factored in to the total cost. A reality show may have comparatively low shooting costs because of the minimal crew and set/location costs. But it has post-production costs that would shock most of our members. Talk and court shows generally are among the least expensive to produce; game shows are generally the next least expensive genre. Variety shows were always big budget. Depending upon the cost of name talent, star-driven sitcoms and scripted drama are the big budget busters. But the latter two also have the potential to mine millions in reruns. Most talk, court, reality and game shows have limited rerun potential, although the recent repurposing of shows such as "Fear Factor" are a break with tradition. No, games that rerun on GSN generate only minimal rerun profits.

To your comparison between the time it takes to tape the two, "Price" is fully written and staged before the tape rolls. It was created in an era when there was such a thing as LIVE TV! "Link" is of another generation, and was written after each round as the game was played. There was as much as 20 minutes of stopdown after each round, and those brief chats between the host and the players were edited from much longer conversations. I'll always remember Weakest Link as "The Endless Warm-up"; I ended up with a temporary condition called plantar fasciitis from the hours of standing... a malady that Bob Barker suffered from briefly during the time I worked on TPiR. But I digress.

Friends such as Bricon can break things down in far greater detail, but you are right about the time in a studio being expensive. Again, the shows that are tougher to shoot are already budgeted for the added expense of long tape days. The studio and equipment rental may likely be for 24 hours, but the minute a production day runs past 8 hours the overtime kicks in; after 12 hours it's another bump in labor costs. Work a few minutes beyond the mandated number of hours between meal breaks, and you pay a penalty to every member of the crew and talent... perhaps even in 15 minute intervals.

Every show wants to keep things moving along briskly for reasons beyond the finances. It helps maintain an up-beat and productive environment that can affect the creative process, and as Matt can attest to, it is difficult for talent to continually shift gears between the adrenalin-tinged energetic pace and recovering from the lost momentum.  

So how can TPiR be more expensive? One show a day is terribly inefficient because the daily studio rental is huge (even though CBS owns the real estate, it's a cost written against TPiR's budget). And each crew member gets a day's pay even if they are in the studio for only a few hours. Plus, there is a (deservedly) high price for the host   ;-)

Anticipating and managing the costs are usually the domain of the Associate Producer and the Executive in Charge of Production. Next time we'll discuss the responsibilities of the Best Boy!


Randy
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« Last Edit: October 28, 2004, 08:09:39 PM by tvrandywest »
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bricon

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2004, 05:28:30 PM »
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Oct 28 2004, 11:13 AM\']The studio and equipment rental may likely be for 24 hours, but the minute a production day runs past 8 hours the overtime kicks in; after 12 hours it's another bump in labor costs. Work a few minutes beyond the mandated number of hours between meal breaks, and you pay a penalty to every member of the crew and talent... perhaps even in 15 minute intervals.[/quote]

Randy refers to meal penalties above.  Typically you must give the crew a break for a meal no more than six hours after their call time.  So, if the crew reported for work at 8:00am, you'd best be breaking before 2pm.  This leads to a game show, normally doing three shows before lunch, breaking after two shows due to unforseen technical problems.

An example is several years ago on Hollywood Squares, the board that controlled the Vari-Lites (those motorized lights you'd see moving back and forth) decided to fry itself during the 2nd show.  There are many things at CBS you can replace on a moment's notice, but a Vari-Lite board isn't one of them.  A replacement had to be brought in from the outside world.  This led to the extremely strange occurance of breaking for lunch in the middle of the show.

Even when a show pays for a dedicated stage (one where the set never comes down, as opposed to CBS studio 33), it doesn't mean that the show in question can access the stage any time it wants.  For example, with Balderdash, the set was always up, and also up on the same stage, is the Jim Rome show for ESPN, and Steve Harvey's Big Time (it's a huge stage)  When Jim Rome was shooting or Steve Harvey rehearsing/shooting we were not allowed to do anything on our set (paint/cosmetic fixes, computer setup, etc.).

chris319

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #4 on: October 29, 2004, 02:11:27 AM »
Quote
So which show costs more to get on the air... TPiR with its streamlined production day, or WL with its marathon tapings?
I'll say it's the one that doesn't have to maintain its own legal defense fund ;-)

TPIR is the most labor-intensive studio game show ever produced and is thus the most expensive. The models, announcer, producer, director, production staff and that octagenarian geezer who emcees it are paid the same whether they're there for 2 hours or 20 hours. Such is the case with all game shows. Behind the scenes of TPIR is a small army of stagehands, set decorators and warehousepersons who schlep prize displays and game boards around. Their base pay goes up 50% after 8 hours in the studio and doubles after 12. WL didn't have a small army of stagehands but it did have a small army of question writers and researchers. WL also spent considerably more time in post production than TPIR. HS had many of the same expenses as WL plus a panel of 9 celebrities to pay. Every show is different.

BTW, for those who never saw Randy working the audience of Weakest Link, he elevated the role of warm-up person from peripheral player to vital necessity. Whatever he was being paid, he deserved 10 times more.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2004, 02:43:36 AM by chris319 »

GS Warehouse

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #5 on: October 29, 2004, 03:55:20 PM »
[quote name=\'chris319\' date=\'Oct 29 2004, 02:11 AM\']
Quote
So which show costs more to get on the air... TPiR with its streamlined production day, or WL with its marathon tapings?
I'll say it's the one that doesn't have to maintain its own legal defense fund ;-)
[snapback]62350[/snapback]
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Are moderators eligible for Line of the Day?

Chief-O

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #6 on: October 29, 2004, 04:13:23 PM »
Everyone is.

Yep, there it is....


LINE OF THE DAY!!!!
There are three things I've learned never to discuss with people: Religion, politics, and the proper wrapping of microphone cables.

TimK2003

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2004, 09:20:56 AM »
One of the other things that drives up the cost of shows like The Price Is Right, Let's Make A Deal, Sale of the Century,  et, al...would be the rehersals where they do the camera blocking, model placement and product demonstration.  That old "Let's Make A Deal" movie, "Deal", showed a lot of that.

Another question for Randy West...How did TPIR handle rehearsing?  How long did it take? Does Bob fully participate in rehearsals, etc...

Tim

cmjb13

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2004, 09:24:26 AM »
[quote name=\'TimK2003\' date=\'Oct 30 2004, 09:20 AM\']One of the other things that drives up the cost of shows like The Price Is Right, Let's Make A Deal, Sale of the Century,  et, al...would be the rehersals where they do the camera blocking, model placement and product demonstration.  That old "Let's Make A Deal" movie, "Deal", showed a lot of that.

Another question for Randy West...How did TPIR handle rehearsing?  How long did it take? Does Bob fully participate in rehearsals, etc...

Tim
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I'm sure Randy will have more information than me, but overall rehearsals last anywhere between 30-60 minutes and Bob does not participate in them.
Enjoy lots and lots of backstage TPIR photos and other fun stuff here. And yes, I did park in Syd Vinnedge's parking spot at CBS

tvrandywest

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2004, 12:53:23 PM »
Quote
I'm sure Randy will have more information than me, but overall rehearsals last anywhere between 30-60 minutes and Bob does not participate in them.

That's right, Chris.

The show is rehearsed without the role of the host or any contestants. They know where they will be walking and where they will be standing; the director will just cut to them (hopefully) as needed. The exception to that rule is when a newer game needs to be more fully rehearsed for the benefit of anyone... that could include the producer, the director and cameramen, or sfx. In those cases Adam Sandler plays Bob's role and anyone handy (sometimes a production guest!) will play the contestant. Bob learns the game play, his part, and where to build the drama with the new games in his dressing room and at other run-through times; not during the rehearsal.

The rehearsal is primarily for blocking the camera coverage for the sets, one-bid items, big prizes and small prizes/groceries. It's also the last opportunity to approve the appearance and presentation of each prop, under the lights as they will be shot... issues such as the best angle for positioning the prizes and props, adding or subtracting plastic holders for smaller props, wiping fingerprints from some or even occassionally doing some touch-up painting to the sets (!), adding or subtracting plants and other supporting decorations. Also covered in rehearsal is how to present all the one bid items and prizes. That includes coming up with (hopefully) new ways to model the cars with action that matches the length of the announcer's copy. Watch for the beauties to walk around, smile through open windows, sit, stand, etc. That's all discussed in the "table reads" and then blocked during rehearsals.

The biggest surprise for most guests is the revelation that the show is rehearsed in reverse order, starting with the showcases. Can you guess why?


T

H

I

N

K


Because the staging area in the hallway is so limited, this allows for the sets and props to be arranged in the order they will be used on the show. The showcases are furthest down the hall, and everything for the first acts is now closest to or already on the stage!


Randy
tvrandywest.com
« Last Edit: October 30, 2004, 12:54:33 PM by tvrandywest »
The story behind the voice you know and love... the voice of a generation of game shows: Johnny Olson!

Celebrate the centennial of the America's favorite announcer with "Johnny Olson: A Voice in Time."

Preview the book free: click "Johnny O Tribute" http://www.tvrandywest.com

chris319

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2004, 10:00:26 PM »
On most game shows the announcer himself or a stand-in reads only the open and close (fee plugs) during rehearsal. TPIR requires the announcer's full participation throughout.

Quote
The biggest surprise for most guests is the revelation that the show is rehearsed in reverse order, starting with the showcases.
Must be a bitch reading the prize copy backwards:

"Rac wen a!"

tvrandywest

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2004, 10:42:46 PM »
Quote
Must be a bitch reading the prize copy backwards:
"Rac wen a!"

Love it! And that's why virtually nobody can replace Bob - he's perfectly palandromic!     ;-P


Randy
tvrandywest.com
The story behind the voice you know and love... the voice of a generation of game shows: Johnny Olson!

Celebrate the centennial of the America's favorite announcer with "Johnny Olson: A Voice in Time."

Preview the book free: click "Johnny O Tribute" http://www.tvrandywest.com

chris319

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2004, 11:17:33 PM »
It's a little easier for the A.D.:

"Bob euc -- 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ni."

DrBear

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #13 on: November 01, 2004, 03:46:39 PM »
Nwod no emoc!

Okay, rehearsal's over...

(Come to think of it, there may be a Welsh game show called "Nwod No Emoc!")
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MSTieScott

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Why are some shows on time deadlines to tape?
« Reply #14 on: November 01, 2004, 04:09:49 PM »
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Oct 30 2004, 11:53 AM\']The exception to that rule is when a newer game needs to be more fully rehearsed for the benefit of anyone... that could include the producer, the director and cameramen, or sfx. In those cases Adam Sandler plays Bob's role and anyone handy (sometimes a production guest!) will play the contestant.
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With the frequent rotation of models, they sometimes also have to rehearse older games to give a model who's unfamiliar with the game a feel for what to do during gameplay (when to reveal a price, for example).

This is how, even though I'll never be a contestant on the show, I can say that I got to play Poker Game.

--
Scott Robinson

(By the way, I won... but I guess that goes without saying, seeing as it is Poker Game.)
« Last Edit: November 01, 2004, 04:10:01 PM by MSTieScott »