Missing Master Tapes

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'pyl85\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 01:11 PM\']I mean Gordie Howe was on HS, Gordie Howe! With people like me starving for anything hockey related, I think there might be a market for it. Come on, if they think there's a market for My Big Fat Obnoxious Ratings Bomb.
[/quote]
This just in: NASCAR pulls better numbers in the US than hockey. And I tell you this as a rabid hockey fan.

If there was a market for the old Squares, GSN never would have stopped running them.

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 03:59 PM\'][quote name=\'pyl85\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 01:11 PM\']I mean Gordie Howe was on HS, Gordie Howe! With people like me starving for anything hockey related, I think there might be a market for it. Come on, if they think there's a market for My Big Fat Obnoxious Ratings Bomb.
[/quote]
This just in: NASCAR pulls better numbers in the US than hockey. And I tell you this as a rabid hockey fan.

If there was a market for the old Squares, GSN never would have stopped running them.

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And they would've licensed more.  Hell, they may've even had Marshall tape a disclaimer to run in front of the shows with the more un-PC lines to try to put those on.  When you've got a hit, you run with it--and believe me, GSN would've run with it.

[AH3RD]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 09:46 AM\']A few thoughts about missing master tapes:  I guess most of us have wondered exactly what's in the network's storage vaults.  Growing up, I always assumed everything a network aired they'd keep a copy of. It wasn't until I watched a few talk shows with game show personalities as guests that I realized that wasn't the case.[/quote]

Hey, for all we know, these missing tapes could be in some other salt mine...

[johnnya2k3]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 12:59 PM\'][quote name=\'pyl85\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 01:11 PM\']I mean Gordie Howe was on HS, Gordie Howe! With people like me starving for anything hockey related, I think there might be a market for it. Come on, if they think there's a market for My Big Fat Obnoxious Ratings Bomb.
[/quote]
This just in: NASCAR pulls better numbers in the US than hockey. And I tell you this as a rabid hockey fan.
[/quote]
Well, considering that the NHL is still in lockout mode for who knows when AND we have a little thing called the Super Bowl next weekend, yes.

But what about the ABC soap operas produced before 1979? Susan Lucci got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame recently, and she's been on "All My Children" from day one. Unfortunately, whenever they show that early clip of her from 1970 (when AMC debuted), it's a B&W kinescope even though the show was broadcast in color. Much of their pre-'79 soaps -- including "A World Apart", which featured a much younger Susan Sarandon -- are gone forever, while ABC started saving their evening news on videotape in the mid-'70s after kinescoping them.

(BTW, "The Grudge" -- starring former AMCer and Sexiest Woman of 2004 winner Sarah Michelle Gellar -- comes out on DVD tomorrow; make sure you grab a copy and run...well, after paying for it first.)

Jonathan Allen

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'johnnya2k3\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 06:13 PM\']Well, considering that the NHL is still in lockout mode for who knows when AND we have a little thing called the Super Bowl next weekend, yes.[/quote]
No, work stoppage and Super Bowl aside, hockey has pulled horrible numbers over the last three years or so, despite absolutely wonderful playoff games.

But what about the ABC soap operas produced before 1979? Susan Lucci got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame recently, and she's been on "All My Children" from day one. Unfortunately, whenever they show that early clip of her from 1970 (when AMC debuted), it's a B&W kinescope even though the show was broadcast in color. Much of their pre-'79 soaps -- including "A World Apart", which featured a much younger Susan Sarandon -- are gone forever, while ABC started saving their evening news on videotape in the mid-'70s after kinescoping them.

And what in the blue hell does any of this have to do with Hollywood Squares and why GSN didn't convert over more shows?

They tried it.

It didn't fly.

Game over.

Pat O'Brien.

[Dbacksfan12]

[quote name=\'johnnya2k3\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 08:13 PM\']Well, considering that the NHL is still in lockout mode for who knows when AND we have a little thing called the Super Bowl next weekend, yes.
[/quote]
As far I know, sports, by rating, go in this order:

NFL
NASCAR [Nextel Cup]
MLB
NBA
[these two may be switched]
I believe NASCAR Busch ranks 6th; and "The Insider" ranks 7th.

[ChuckNet]

There are also storage areas all over LA, NY and across the country that are stacked with unlabelled or mislabelled master tapes.

...which is what happened w/a certain 1971 ep of Dark Shadows...when the series was first launched in syndication after the network run had ended, it was discovered the plastic case holding what they thought was said ep actually contained a blank tape...given the circumstances, however, they made the best of the situation and re-created the ep via still photos and the ep's original audio.

And while I'd love to see more classic GS eps turn up in reruns, I know we're just a small portion of the general public...the bottom line is, it ain't happening.

ObGameShow: Dark Shadows was canned to make room for the 71 revival of Password.

Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious "Chuckie Baby")

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'johnnya2k3\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 08:13 PM\'][

But what about the ABC soap operas produced before 1979? Susan Lucci got a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame recently, and she's been on "All My Children" from day one. Unfortunately, whenever they show that early clip of her from 1970 (when AMC debuted), it's a B&W kinescope even though the show was broadcast in color. Much of their pre-'79 soaps -- including "A World Apart", which featured a much younger Susan Sarandon -- are gone forever, while ABC started saving their evening news on videotape in the mid-'70s after kinescoping them.

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Doesn't Soapnet rerun Ryan's Hope from the 70s?

[NickintheATL]

[quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 10:12 PM\']
Doesn't Soapnet rerun Ryan's Hope from the 70s?

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You are correct sir, they have aired them and still do, as far as I know.

[calliaume]

Many many moons ago, I interned at CNN in Washington.  One of my assignments was to go through a pile of videotapes containing Reagan getting into or coming out of the helicopter on the White House lawn.  If there seemed to be anything of importance (i.e. he did something other than say hi and wave at the reporters), I was to keep it.  Other than that, we kept a couple of tapes from each season of the year, and pitched the rest.  That took me about 10 or 12 hours.  (Interns didn't get paid, by the way.  And I loved interning there.)

My point being, there are hours and hours and hours and hours (repeat until bored) of stuff on videotape that are useful to somebody, but have little value to the vast majority of folks.  And if Hollywood Squares, one of the biggest game shows of the '70s, didn't garner enough viewers to stick on Game Show Network, who's going to wade through four years' of Gambit episodes to try to sell the reruns of that?

[Fedya]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 02:19 PM\']I guess another question might be what happened to the tapes over the years?  If thousands of "Hollywood Squares" tapes were discovered, what about the other NBC games of that time frame, especially Heatter-Quigley's "High Rollers" - doesn't it seem logical that it should have been stored in the same place?  If "Joker's Wild" and "Spin-off" were found together, what about shows like "Hollywood's Talking" or the original "$10,000 Pyramid", which were on the same network at the same time?
[/quote]
Mightn't some of this depend on where the shows were taped?  Most of the $10K Pyramid episodes were taped in New York, and from what I remember reading here, the roughly three weeks of extant episodes are from weeks taped in Los Angeles.

[BrandonFG]

[quote name=\'NicholasM79\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 09:14 PM\'][quote name=\'zachhoran\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 10:12 PM\']
Doesn't Soapnet rerun Ryan's Hope from the 70s?

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You are correct sir, they have aired them and still do, as far as I know.

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They air it, and they only air from the beginning to about 1981 or 82.

ObGameShow: Ryan's Hope debuted July 7, 1975, the same day as Rhyme and Reason (and both were ABC). No, I don't need to know what other shows debuted that day.

[That Don Guy]

Let's not forget the other reason tapes of some shows may not exist: back in the 1960s, color videotape stock was notorious for deteriorating relatively quickly.  (Remember the 2000th episode of Jeopardy! GSN aired once?)  I remember someone at MT&R in New York mentioning that they had acquired a set of tapes of some series from the '60s (I can't remember which one, although it wasn't a game show), but the tapes were unviewable "as is" and they would have to get them restored somehow.

-- Don

[bricon]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 03:06 PM\']Didn't ABC change some locations of some of its facilities in the 70s?  I heard that old studios that had LMAD, and Feud as its clients are no longer there, or is it the studio that hosted $10,000 Pyramid and now there's an Elementary School there?

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The stage at the ABC lot - Stage D, and later Stage 54 - that housed LMAD, Family Feud and more, was demolished sometime in late '80's/early '90's.  It was rebuilt on the same spot and is used for General Hospital.  You can see before and after pictures of that stage here.

ABC studio TV-15 in New York was demolished sometime approximately 1984/85, and the St. Thomas Choir School now stands on the site, with the same address - 202 West 58th Street.

[Sonic Whammy]

[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 11:46 AM\']Even when the tapes are labelled, the production company long ago ceased to pay the storage. Sometimes it's because it's the cheapest and easiest way to be done with tapes no longer wanted, sometimes it's because the person responsible for keeping track of such things moves to another job, retires or dies, leaving sketchy or no records of tapes placed is storage several decades earlier.

The storage facilities often keep the tapes despite the fact that nobody has paid for storage in years, sometimes hoping that the bill may ultimately be paid, or because it's easier to just keep the tapes where they are rather than box 'em up and dump them when the space isn't needed. Trying to locate the rightful owner of the product after years of mergers and acquisitions can be an incredibly time consuming issue that can result with a "so what" from the new owner when finally located and contacted by the storage facility. At best, it's an "asset" of dubious value.

The one person who deserves "props" for talking with librarians at storage facilities about mis-labelled tapes that have languished for decades is GSN's David Schwartz. As his employer, Sony has ultimately come to be the rightful owner of some of the lost material, and because he's passionate about the product, David is responsible for some of the best "finds" in recent years.


Randy
tvrandywest.com

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I'll go with that all the way, Randy. And of course, based on this, I'M personally hoping that someday, this random search unearths the mythical anomaly that was SECOND CHANCE.

And to think, if I had been a little more aggressive a few years ago, I might have discovered an ep of it... and I'm not kidding, either.

I consider my personal moment of shame in this genre.