Missing Master Tapes

[inturnaround]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Jan 31 2005, 03:59 PM\']If there was a market for the old Squares, GSN never would have stopped running them.

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There are other reasons that shows get cancelled other than straight ratings. Is it possible that the show was skewing too old and advertisers were reluctant to buy on a show where remembering Wally Cox means you  probably use Geritol for your tired blood and Viagra for your tired...er, well, you get my meaning.

If they had to pay more than they wanted for a show that wasn't getting them any more ratings than something they didn't have to pay extra for, then it would make sense for them to try to save the money.

I don't think GSN ever made their ratings for Squares public, but I doubt those for HS were that bad.

[tyshaun1]

[quote name=\'inturnaround\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 07:23 AM\']I don't think GSN ever made their ratings for Squares public, but I doubt those for HS were that bad.

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I do remember something to the effect that the premiere pulled a .5, which was an average rating (at the time) for prime time on the network. I doubt the show pulled any higher ratings than that.

Tyshaun

[Ian Wallis]

I'm pretty sure I read on a certain game show site that Rich Cronin was happy with "Squares" performance after the first couple of months.  However, since they only got 150 shows and ran them several times, ratings likely dropped a fair bit by the second or third run.

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 08:55 AM\']I'm pretty sure I read on a certain game show site that Rich Cronin was happy with "Squares" performance after the first couple of months.  However, since they only got 150 shows and ran them several times, ratings likely dropped a fair bit by the second or third run.

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They've rerun a smaller number of episodes of Robinson WL for several cycles the last two years, and Greed is in cycle eight or nine on weekends after a three year weekend run. WOnder if those shows' ratings have dropped due to overexposure.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'inturnaround\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 08:23 AM\']There are other reasons that shows get cancelled other than straight ratings. Is it possible that the show was skewing too old and advertisers were reluctant to buy on a show where remembering Wally Cox means you  probably use Geritol for your tired blood and Viagra for your tired...er, well, you get my meaning.[/quote]
Fair enough, but the reasons really aren't the issue.  The issue is that a market doesn't exist for these old shows, so finding them is only one small part of the bigger picture of ever actually seeing them again.

To use a more popular example, whatever exists from Carson's Tonight show is famously stored in that great big salt mine.  So what?  Even for something as popular and culturally significant as that legendary series, it's unlikely that anyone's going to spend millions of dollars and thousands of hours to get all of them transferred.

The more I think about it, the luckier I feel that somebody actually went to the trouble of modernizing ALL of the G-T panel shows in the vaults.  Even if, as Dave Mackey pointed out, the transfers were pretty poor by today's HD standards.  Given the same opportunity to transfer classic Squares, the powers-that-be only dubbed a handful.

[14gameshows]

Come to think about all of this, isn't there a WHOLE LOT of ABC gameshows from the 70s that are missing?  Also could it be that a whole lot of shows from ABC period from that time are missing as well, they can include talk shows, varieties, soaps, and sitcoms.

ANd as a $50 follow-up, why in the world are cable channels in which their programming revolved around a particular theme, now show series from recent years.  Example, TVLAND; a supposed spin-off of the Nick-At-Nite series but only 24/7 on its own network, now show stuff from the late 80s and 90s, when at first they only shows stuff from the 50s to late 70s?  Sci-Fi, doesn't always show Science-Fiction programming.  Heck, even ESPN doesn't show SportsCenter 24/7 anymore!!  Dit-dit-dit--dit-dit-dit.

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 10:41 AM\']Heck, even ESPN doesn't show SportsCenter 24/7 anymore!!  Dit-dit-dit--dit-dit-dit.

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When did they ever?

Doug -- and the countdown to 1000 continues (last time I type that)

[zachhoran]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 11:41 AM\']Come to think about all of this, isn't there a WHOLE LOT of ABC gameshows from the 70s that are missing?  Also could it be that a whole lot of shows from ABC period from that time are missing as well, they can include talk shows, varieties, soaps, and sitcoms.

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The only ones we know to exist in full are BtB76 and Dawson Feud IIRC. Other things exist in part like ABC Newlywed or Dating Games and $20K Pyramid(mid 1978-mid 1980).

[RMF]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 11:41 AM\']Come to think about all of this, isn't there a WHOLE LOT of ABC gameshows from the 70s that are missing?

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Looking at game shows from between 1970 and mid-1978, with the help of friend Alliaume's list:

Blankety Blanks- Only one episode definately known to survive.
Password- Only around 15 episodes, mostly taped off-air by the UCLA media department.
Show-offs- One episode
Let's Make A Deal- Uncertain, as far as the ABC daytime ones go.
Hot Seat- One episode
Second Chance- Only the pilot
Better Sex-Uncertain
Split Second- Around a dozen, mostly at UCLA
Rhyme and Reason- Only the pilot
Newlywed Game- Survives, but most episodes apparently unairable
$10,000/$20,000 Pyramid- Only the last couple of years survive in full.
Dating Game- Survives
Big Showdown- One episode and pilot
Neighbors- Only one episode, at MTR (and that only because Andy Warhol taped it)
Break The Bank- Survives
The Money Maze- Pilot and one or two eps at MTR
You Don't Say- Two eps.

In short, only three ABC game shows of the era survive in full, and, notably, they are from two of the three producers (Barris and B-E) known for having higher-than-usual survival rates.

EDIT: Good heavens, I forgot about Family Feud!

[Ian Wallis]

Doug -- and the countdown to 1000 continues (last time I type that)

You mean you actually TYPE that in every time?  There's got to be an easier way than that!

[Ian Wallis]

Blankety Blanks- Only one episode definately known to survive.
Let's Make A Deal- Uncertain, as far as the ABC daytime ones go.
Better Sex-Uncertain
Newlywed Game- Survives, but most episodes apparently unairable

Going on what GSN (apparantly) has, only two episodes of "The Better Sex" exist, with two additional (including the pilot) in the trading circle.

For a while it was rumoured that the entirety of "Blankety Blanks" existed, but we've seen no evidence of that.

When "LMAD" first went on GSN, I think it was reported that 1100 episodes still existed.  If that's the case, at least *some* of the ABC daytime run has to still be around.

As for "Newlywed Game", GSN has aired about 40 of the ABC episodes - 8 from 1969, and the rest from the '72-74 time frame.  They looked fine to me.  There has been talk of "color deterioration", but I find it kind of odd that "Dating Game" from the same period exists in almost perfect condition (from what we've seen of it).  GSN has aired most episodes from the late '60s to the end of the run.  Could they have been stored in different warehouses?

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'14gameshows\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 11:41 AM\']ANd as a $50 follow-up, why in the world are cable channels in which their programming revolved around a particular theme, now show series from recent years.  Example, TVLAND; a supposed spin-off of the Nick-At-Nite series but only 24/7 on its own network, now show stuff from the late 80s and 90s, when at first they only shows stuff from the 50s to late 70s?  Sci-Fi, doesn't always show Science-Fiction programming.  Heck, even ESPN doesn't show SportsCenter 24/7 anymore!!  Dit-dit-dit--dit-dit-dit.

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It was natural that TVL and NAN had to progress along in time--and NAN is now defined as an all-sitcom service, with a special charge in its early hours to hang on to some of the kids watching Nick from 8 to 9.  Most of TVL is still 50s, 60s and 70s, but they still can't air old shows just to air old shows--there has to be proof that there's an audience for them.

Sci-Fi has always aired horror/ fantasy and paranormal programming--it's always been considered that those genres are sister genres to science fiction.

And if people complain about ESPN, it's because they seem not to be airing a wide a swath of legitimate *event* coverage as they once did, in favor of made-for-TV events (even "World Series of Poker" could be considered that), scripted shows and movies and the seemingly ever-popular middle-aged-sportswriters-screaming-at-each-other shows, thanks to rights fees ballooning and worries about system operators revolting over high subscriber fees.

[RMF]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 12:22 PM\']

Blankety Blanks- Only one episode definately known to survive.
Let's Make A Deal- Uncertain, as far as the ABC daytime ones go.
Better Sex-Uncertain
Newlywed Game- Survives, but most episodes apparently unairable

Going on what GSN (apparantly) has, only two episodes of "The Better Sex" exist, with two additional (including the pilot) in the trading circle.

For a while it was rumoured that the entirety of "Blankety Blanks" existed, but we've seen no evidence of that.

When "LMAD" first went on GSN, I think it was reported that 1100 episodes still existed.  If that's the case, at least *some* of the ABC daytime run has to still be around.

As for "Newlywed Game", GSN has aired about 40 of the ABC episodes - 8 from 1969, and the rest from the '72-74 time frame.  They looked fine to me.  There has been talk of "color deterioration", but I find it kind of odd that "Dating Game" from the same period exists in almost perfect condition (from what we've seen of it).  GSN has aired most episodes from the late '60s to the end of the run.  Could they have been stored in different warehouses?

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In order:

Until we find the GSN master catalog, we won't know for certain with TBS.

Seeing as how NO Bob Stewart pre-1978 daytime network game show has more than a relative few episodes surviving, it would be a major shock if "Blankety Blanks" turned up.

The rumor I've heard is that around 500 ABC LMAD (and two dozen or so NBC LMAD, almost solely of the prime-time run) survive. Assuming that this includes the entire ABC prime-time run (and it is clear that at least a few of those survive), that would mean around a season and a half or so of daytime LMAD (most likely the last season and a half) would survive. However, until I see the lists, this is purely speculation.

It is entirely probable that GSN "cherry-picked" the episodes in best shape (after all, who said that they all must have deteriorated?). The airing of the corresponding Dating Games would suggest that GSN would have aired more if they could, and the range of episode dates and the known practices of Chuck Barris makes it unlikely that he would have saved only a handful.

[SRIV94]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 11:16 AM\']

Doug -- and the countdown to 1000 continues (last time I type that)

You mean you actually TYPE that in every time?  There's got to be an easier way than that!

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I can't put it in the signature, because there's no record of it once you decide to change your signature (it's not like the olden days when sigs were permanently embedded [for lack of a better term] into your post).  Someone here (I think it was Kevin [whoserman]) had a signature paying tribute to Rod Roddy (it's since been changed).  It was a little odd seeing that particular signature if you go back to his first posts here, which were in June 2003 when Rod was still alive.  And it's not like I'm typing War and Peace; just a few extra keystrokes here and there.  No biggie.

And hey, I've now joined the 1000 Post Club!  (Of course, only 12 of them were actually good.)

Doug -- celebrating 1000 posts (see, just a few extra keystrokes--I could keep going and going and going. . . .)

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' date=\'Feb 1 2005, 01:22 PM\']For a while it was rumoured that the entirety of "Blankety Blanks" existed, but we've seen no evidence of that.[/quote]
Extremely unlikely. When Sony purchased the Bob Stewart library, some of us HOPED that it might mean seeing greater numbers of some of his lesser efforts, and we did get to see some isolated rarities and pilots, but it's looking more and more like they just didn't keep that stuff.

Speaking of pilots, the Blankety Blanks one survives as well.