Jeopardy! question

[That Don Guy]

When did Jeopardy! change its "you only have to give us the last name" rule?  (I've noticed that sometimes they will accept just a last name, while other times Alex will ask, "Which one?")

-- Don

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'That Don Guy\' date=\'Mar 3 2005, 10:39 PM\']When did Jeopardy! change its "you only have to give us the last name" rule?  (I've noticed that sometimes they will accept just a last name, while other times Alex will ask, "Which one?")[/quote]
The rule has always been that the last name is OK UNLESS it's necessary to be more specific.  Always.  You could never say "Who is Roosevelt?" on a Presidents clue, for example.  There have been oddities, as I think we've mentioned in another thread, and it's possible in 20+ years that Alex hasn't applied the rule correctly once or twice, but you've always had to make it clear that you knew specifically who you were talking about.  If you say "Who is Filmore?" on a Presidents clue, Alex isn't going to ask you, "Which one?"

[Jay Temple]

Don Guy:

A certain player benefited from the continued practice of this rule when they accepted "Who is Jones?" last year.  In that game he dethroned the champion, and he went on to win not a small amount of money.

Perchance are you asking because of a recent clue about a member of a famous acting family?

[dmota104]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Mar 3 2005, 09:48 PM\']The rule has always been that the last name is OK UNLESS it's necessary to be more specific.  Always.  You could never say "Who is Roosevelt?" on a Presidents clue, for example.  There have been oddities, as I think we've mentioned in another thread, and it's possible in 20+ years that Alex hasn't applied the rule correctly once or twice, but you've always had to make it clear that you knew specifically who you were talking about.  If you say "Who is Filmore?" on a Presidents clue, Alex isn't going to ask you, "Which one?"

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Perhaps it might help if the words "first and last name of" or "full name of" were included in the answer.  

A hypothetical answer from a Tennis category: "The first and last name of the winner of the ladies' final at Wimbledon in 2000."  This way, you can't get away with just responding "Who is Williams?"   You'd have to respond "Who is Venus Williams?" to get credit for a response.

FWIW, this idea (and even Q&A material) is derived from a "Dog Eat Dog" final round showdown -- when a member of the dog pound was asked to identify, by first and last name, the 2000 women's champ at Wimbledon.  The contestant, knowing it was a 50-50 shot, responded Serena Williams.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'dmota104\' date=\'Mar 4 2005, 10:16 AM\']A hypothetical answer from a Tennis category: "The first and last name of the winner of the ladies' final at Wimbledon in 2000."  This way, you can't get away with just responding "Who is Williams?"   You'd have to respond "Who is Venus Williams?" to get credit for a response.[/quote]
There's a very limited amount of space for a clue to be presented in one of those screens.  The writers aren't about to waste that space to specifically say "first and last name required" on those very few times when it's necessary.  That's Alex's job.  Everybody who's playing knows the rules about that sort of thing before they start.

And please don't compare Jeopardy to the quiz round of Dog Eat Dog.  I'm eating lunch right now.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'Jay Temple\' date=\'Mar 4 2005, 12:32 AM\']A certain player benefited from the continued practice of this rule when they accepted "Who is Jones?" last year.  In that game he dethroned the champion, and he went on to win not a small amount of money.[/quote]
It's astonishing how close we came to having that amazing streak not happen.  In Ken's defense, he says he knew it, and wasn't just blindly doing one of those Smith/Jones things you do when you don't know.   It's also true -- and this is somewhat surprising when you think about it -- that there just aren't any other famous Olympian "Jones" that come anywhere close to fitting that clue.

[dale_grass]

If the writers started marking certain questions with "first and last name," it may serve as an unintentional clue.  For example, in a category on presidents, such a nudge would suggest the answer is a Roosevelt, Adams, Johnson, Harrison or Bush.  An even better example is the Venus/Serena situation.  

(P.S.- I loved Alex's "I can think of five" comment.  He's at his best when he's condescending.)

[clemon79]

[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Mar 4 2005, 09:51 AM\']that there just aren't any other famous Olympian "Jones" that come anywhere close to fitting that clue.

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I trust it was Marion Jones. Only one of any note _I_ can think of, and I'm pretty well versed in things sporting.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Mar 4 2005, 01:05 PM\'][quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Mar 4 2005, 09:51 AM\']that there just aren't any other famous Olympian "Jones" that come anywhere close to fitting that clue.[/quote]
I trust it was Marion Jones. Only one of any note _I_ can think of, and I'm pretty well versed in things sporting.[/quote]
There you go, then.  So while "Who is Jones?" certainly looked a little suspicious, there's no doubt that the judges made the right call in ruling it correct.

[Lemonjello]

So, what happens if the FINAL JEOPARDY clue is "The winner of the ladies' final at Wimbledon in 2000," and a contestant only writes "Who is Williams?"

Incorrect?

[OntarioQuizzer]

[quote name=\'Lemonjello\' date=\'Mar 6 2005, 12:13 PM\']So, what happens if the FINAL JEOPARDY clue is "The winner of the ladies' final at Wimbledon in 2000," and a contestant only writes "Who is Williams?"

Incorrect?

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The contestant co-ordinators will tell the contestants to be very specific in FJ.

Meaning, yes. Who is Williams? would be incorrect.

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'OntarioQuizzer\' date=\'Mar 6 2005, 01:20 PM\'][quote name=\'Lemonjello\' date=\'Mar 6 2005, 12:13 PM\']So, what happens if the FINAL JEOPARDY clue is "The winner of the ladies' final at Wimbledon in 2000," and a contestant only writes "Who is Williams?"
Incorrect?[/quote]The contestant co-ordinators will tell the contestants to be very specific in FJ.
Meaning, yes. Who is Williams? would be incorrect.[/quote]
I love it when I have VERY specific first-hand knowledge!

On my Jeopardy appearance, it was Alex himself who told Ken and me that we needed to be very specific.  The correct response was "What is a dishwasher?", and I assume they were worried about someone just writing "washer" or maybe trying to get credit for "washing machine" after the fact.

[starcade]

I think that's a simple question of what constitutes "clear and present knowledge" of the required information.

If the last name suffices, it's enough.

If not, they'll either ask you for more or look at you stupidly until you lose for your time to answer running out.  

[uncamark]

[quote name=\'dale_grass\' date=\'Mar 4 2005, 11:58 AM\'](P.S.- I loved Alex's "I can think of five" comment.  He's at his best when he's condescending.)

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OK--John, Lionel, Ethel and Drew Barrymoore--who's the fifth one, Mr. Canuck?  (As if Trebek actually reads this.)

[Matt Ottinger]

[quote name=\'uncamark\' date=\'Mar 7 2005, 06:30 PM\'][quote name=\'dale_grass\' date=\'Mar 4 2005, 11:58 AM\'](P.S.- I loved Alex's "I can think of five" comment.  He's at his best when he's condescending.)[/quote]
OK--John, Lionel, Ethel and Drew Barrymoore--who's the fifth one, Mr. Canuck?  (As if Trebek actually reads this.)[/quote]
John Junior would be the fifth, though it's hard to say whether Mr. Canuck actually knew that off the top of his head, or whether he planned that line knowing he might get the chance to use it.  ("Carefully scripted ad-libs" as Tom Bergeron used to call them on Breakfast Time.)