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Author Topic: Battle of the NBC Stars  (Read 10877 times)

tvrandywest

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2003, 02:14:24 PM »
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 11:37 AM\']
Quote
In fact, NBC operated two networks: NBC Blue, headed by station WJZ, and NBC Red, headed by WEAF. This situation arose, due to NBC then owning two stations in New York (WEAF and WJZ). WEAF and the 'Red' Network became the flagship network and offered most of the established shows--and advertisers, and the 'Blue' Network carried most of the sustaining shows (e.g., shows without regular sponsors). How did they arrive at the names 'Red' and 'Blue'? The felt tip marker pen used to trace the routes of the WJZ-headed stations was blue, and as you may have already guessed, the marker used to trace the WEAF-headed stations was red. This was a confusing situation for everyone but NBC and its sponsors and advertisers, and that was just fine by NBC, thank you.

Man, I fancy myself to be something of a radio historian, and I didn't even know some of that.  Good question, and a very nice find by jalman of a perfect link.   Jalman, you've \"won\" a game show home game from my extras pile.  E-mail me at ottinger@acd.net for the details.[/quote]
WHOA!!!  Not so fast!!

A wonderful job of finding a website with the story, but as we all know, not everything on the WWW is true or completely accurate. Despite how old some people think I am, I was not there when the Red and Blue were both operated by NBC (by court decree they \"blew off\" the Blue), or for the beginning of ABC when Sarnoff sold the lesser of his 2 networks to Mr. Noble, the owner of the company that made Lifesavers candy. But here's the story on the naming of the Red and Blue that I've heard on several occasions from different sources. This is the kind of crap I ask old-timers during breaks on the sets:

In the day, programs were distributed to affiliates via telephone lines. As anyone who has seen old telephone termination points can attest, before the current punch-on tool was used, the termination points were blocks of copper screw posts, each with a nut that screwed down to tighten the wires.

AT&T's carefully formatted and supervised practice of the day was for installers to mark and \"protect\" the connections of priority customers whose service should not be interrupted or temporarily shorted by the use of a screwdriver on an adjacent termination post. That protection was provided by placing a small, non-conductive \"cover\" over the priority termination point. It was spiral in shape like a tiny Slinky toy, and it could be screwed down over the nut; it protruded past the end of the screw post for protection. I've seen these termination blocks and these \"covers\" many times at old telco installations in the older buildings in New York. I bet some still exist where the service first enters the building. They also still exist at older telco central office installations.

Because NBC had more than one service on many of these blocks, AT&T denoted one from the other by using \"covers\" of different colors... red and blue!

The only other story I heard was that it was a simple naming differentiation made by NBC. Much like the Ringling Brothers' Circus which STILL uses \"red\" and \"blue\" to differentiate between the two shows that tour simultaneously to different cities. The circus also uses \"red\" to denote the show with their star performers.


Still believe the original posted story? Ask your parents or grandparents when they first saw a felt tipped marker. They didn't exist before the late 1950s, and were not common until well into the 60s   ;-)


Randy
tvrandywest.com

P.S.  Matt, tell us what I won!
« Last Edit: August 01, 2003, 02:34:52 PM by tvrandywest »

Matt Ottinger

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #16 on: August 01, 2003, 03:09:30 PM »
Well. like any good game show producer, I'm not going to take away the prize just because there was a judging error.  Jalman's still won his box game, if he wants it.

But yeah, I guess I spoke too soon.  The site is certainly impressive looking and rich with detail.  It didn't strike me as the sort of place that would make stuff up.   Still, the story does seem to have drifted into lore and legend.  Even Randy, with that rich oral history to draw from, had two completely different stories.  Googling gives us even more.  We've also got a \"Chicken/Egg\" thing going on here.  Were the networks named for the lines, pins and covers that marked them, or did the people making those diagrams and marking those posts logically choose to use the identifying colors by which the networks had already been named?

Now I'm curious as to what Chris' original idea was when he asked the question in the first place.

And Randy, I've got the perfect prize for you:  MY voice on YOUR answering machine!
This has been another installment of Matt Ottinger's Masters of the Obvious.
Stay tuned for all the obsessive-compulsive fun of Words Have Meanings.

tvrandywest

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #17 on: August 01, 2003, 04:26:46 PM »
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 02:09 PM\']And Randy, I've got the perfect prize for you:  MY voice on YOUR answering machine![/quote]
Touche! That's being met wit the same enthusiasm as when I innocently (and not intentionally condescendingly) offered it to you. Can I get the Tuvache perfume instead? It WAS a lot of typing!  ;-)

Randy
tvrandywest.com

clemon79

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #18 on: August 01, 2003, 04:48:40 PM »
[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 12:09 PM\'] Now I'm curious as to what Chris' original idea was when he asked the question in the first place.
 [/quote]
 Actually, Jalman was close enough to the answer _I_ had learned to be considered a winner...the story that was listed in MY History of Broadcasting text in college was that the colors Red and Blue referred to the colors of ink used to keep the financial numbers separate in NBC's ledger books.

I had honestly never heard of the stories about the routing maps (by the way, the ballpoint pen (much less the felt-tip) hadn't become a cheap source of writing implement until the late 40's, and by then NBC Blue was ABC...) OR Randy's story about the post terminators...I was under the impression that the above was the Definitive Story. (After all, I learned it in COLLEGE! And not only that, my professor for that class was the guy who STARTED the campus radio station at SJSU in 1963, 30 years before! The control room was named for him!)

(And his name wasn't Beverly! Oops...that was snarky. Was that snarky? ;))

So I agree that Jalman should be declared the winner, if for no other reason than his find sparked a most interesting discussion on the topic, and thank Matt for his generous donation of a prize to the effort.
Chris Lemon, King Fool, Director of Suck Consolidation
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Jimmy Owen

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« Reply #19 on: August 01, 2003, 07:23:41 PM »
Having worked as a bookkeeper, I never used red ink on my books (unless we were losing money).
Let's Make a Deal was the first show to air on Buzzr. 6/1/15 8PM.

clemon79

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2003, 07:25:06 PM »
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 04:23 PM\'] Having worked as a bookkeeper, I never used red ink on my books (unless we were losing money). [/quote]
 I thought about that, too, which is another reason I'm not claiming my story as gospel. But at the same time, in 1940, if you need two colors to differentiate between two groups in your books, which two colors is the acountant going to have at hand?
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Fedya

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« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2003, 11:09:02 PM »
[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 03:26 PM\'] Can I get the Tuvache perfume instead? It WAS a lot of typing!  ;-) [/quote]
 You know, that perfume will go well with the pantyhose you won as a consolation gift on all those game shows you were on.

Are you planning to dress in drag for any audience warm-up duty?  :-)
-- Ted Schuerzinger, now blogging at <a href=\"http://justacineast.blogspot.com/\" target=\"_blank\">http://justacineast.blogspot.com/[/url]

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tvrandywest

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2003, 11:57:10 PM »
[quote name=\'Fedya\' date=\'Aug 1 2003, 10:09 PM\'] You know, that perfume will go well with the pantyhose you won as a consolation gift on all those game shows you were on.

Are you planning to dress in drag for any audience warm-up duty?  :-) [/quote]
 Only if you ask nicely and buy me dinner  ;-p

Randy
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trainman

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #23 on: August 02, 2003, 09:29:22 PM »
I'll just add an extra layer of confusion here by pointing out that most if not all of the program guides and station listings I've seen from the 1930s don't say \"NBC Red\" and \"NBC Blue\"; instead, they say \"NBC\" and \"Blue.\"
« Last Edit: August 02, 2003, 09:30:09 PM by trainman »
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Matt Ottinger

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #24 on: August 02, 2003, 10:02:40 PM »
[quote name=\'trainman\' date=\'Aug 3 2003, 01:29 AM\'] I'll just add an extra layer of confusion here by pointing out that most if not all of the program guides and station listings I've seen from the 1930s don't say "NBC Red" and "NBC Blue"; instead, they say "NBC" and "Blue." [/quote]
 Thta's actually not such a confusion.  There's no doubt that the Red Network was NBC's primary network, and it doesn't surprise me that some listings would treat it that way.  The Blue Network was made up of secondary and \"sustaining\" (unsponsored) programming.  That's also the reason that, when it came time to sell off one or the other, NBC chose to sell off the Blue.
This has been another installment of Matt Ottinger's Masters of the Obvious.
Stay tuned for all the obsessive-compulsive fun of Words Have Meanings.

PeterMarshallFan

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #25 on: August 02, 2003, 10:19:37 PM »
Geez....I'm learning so much from this thread.


ObNBCGameShows: bil kulin wus funi on hat putato. :P

dzinkin

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #26 on: August 03, 2003, 12:51:49 AM »
[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Aug 2 2003, 10:19 PM\'] ObNBCGameShows: bil kulin wus funi on hat putato. :P [/quote]
 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!  STONE HIM!

;-)

ChuckNet

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Battle of the NBC Stars
« Reply #27 on: August 03, 2003, 01:41:46 PM »
Quote
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!! STONE HIM!

Paging MoreHits4U and his alter egos...

Chuck Donegan (The Comedic \"Chuckie Baby\")