The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: Jay Temple on July 13, 2006, 01:51:40 AM
-
Last year I stopped watching J! because the material didn't interest me any more. (It's time to stop watching when your response to every other clue is, "Who cares?") Still needing a fix, I started taping P+ right before they got to the last episode and started over.
I enjoy the mental challenge of coming up with the perfect clue. It dawned on me that the people who can do that are, well, smart!
Other than straight quizzers, is there another game that requires more intelligence than Password? Or does it just seem like an intelligent game to me because it uses a particular skill that I happen to be good at?
Also, do the rest of you share my observation that the puzzles on P+ (at least the early ones that I've seen this year) were a lot easier than the ones on SP? Mainly that just means that they rarely solved a SP puzzle in fewer than three words, but two was not at all unusual on P+?
-
The writing on P+ was...different. In the earlier goings (and well into their years, to be honest) they had the word order reversed, in my opinion. One such puzzle might've been SPOTS, DOG, BREED, FIREMEN, DISNEY in that order, which would result in a fairly easy two-clue solve. Played in reverse, it would've come together at the 3rd clue, maybe not be solved by the 4th.
By the middle of Kennedy's tenure (I got this from an ep. I caught of the Steve Allen/Jayne Meadows week) the five words to the puzzle didn't exactly lead to a succint answer, which made it seem like playing the main game all over again. In that episode, a ridiculous amount of puzzles went unsolved.
I loved the SP writing because they chose some great passwords. I wasn't always crazy about the impossible-until-the-fourth-clue puzzles, but spicing up the password play was cool with me. On the plus side (tee-hee) P+ had the easier words, but the play/pass option to make it more interesting.
To get back to your original question - I dare say you may be right. There's more to making your mind work so you can communicate an idea in as little as one word. Although my dad quite rightly said how tough "Pyramid" really can be and how easy the regulars made it look in the 80s. Being able to zero in on one term with a sentence, much less 7 within 30 seconds is a good exercise in vocabulary and using your words wisely. The endgame in particular - finding that one perfect clue to transmit "Things that are Narrow" takes some out-the-box thinking and a deal of intelligence, IMO. Although "Jeopardy" is at least a step above an average trivia game, because the writers often give you several ways to arrive at the answer - whether it be with two definitions in the clue, or by using the category and a vague clue in tandem.
-Jason
-
Definitely Password and Pyramid (especially the Winner's Circle) are among the game shows requiring the most intelligence. I happen to be good at them, too, but I'm also good at J! and other trivia games because, besides knowing much useless trivia, I'm good at making educated guesses based on the phrasing of the question.
What's really frustrating, however, is playing the home version of Password or Pyramid with a partner who isn't nearly on your level (which doesn't mean your partner is stupid, just that his brain doesn't work the way it needs to work to play these games well). You can give that perfect clue and then sit there in frustration as your partner just doesn't get it. (This happened to me just last week.) I can well imagine how contestants playing for real money must have felt getting stuck with less-than-stellar celebrity partners on those shows.
-
Mike said it well. Password and Pyramid are probably the two most intelligent formats that are not standard Q&A, and you might make the case that they require more intelligence. After all, standard Q&A games require sheerly memory recall, whereas Password and Pyramid require more thought than just recalling a blurb from the vast regions of one's brain.
-
The one strategy element of P+/SP was the ability to use the puzzle answer as a clue word if you were far enough along in the puzzle. If you were canny enough, you could sort of use that as a cue to indicate to your partner that "this is the puzzle answer".
Chris C., was this sort of device was actually encouraged, or did the celebs and contestants kinda figure this out on their own?
-
If J! put in a rule that after a row was completed, you got a chance to guess the category ("is it Potent Potables?"), would that be an improvement?
-
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'124072\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 10:28 AM\']
If J! put in a rule that after a row was completed, you got a chance to guess the category ("is it Potent Potables?"), would that be an improvement?
[/quote]
(Direct link to audio file deleted. Please link to the page containing the file, not the file itself. -DZ)
-
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'124072\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 07:28 AM\']
If J! put in a rule that after a row was completed, you got a chance to guess the category ("is it Potent Potables?"), would that be an improvement?
[/quote]
I'm not sure why it needs improving, honestly. Or are you throwing it out there as a "would this make a good show even better?" thing?
-
[quote name=\'FOXSportsFan\' post=\'124067\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 09:00 AM\']
After all, standard Q&A games require sheerly memory recall
[/quote]
Moreso, some of that stuff doesn't take any intellegence at all (while sometimes, you have to solve, say, a math problem...knowing who had an affair with Paris Hilton takes 0 intellegence).
I personally think word games do take the most intellegence.
Speaking of math, has there ever been a game solely based on it?
-
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'124079\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 12:21 PM\']
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'124072\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 07:28 AM\']
If J! put in a rule that after a row was completed, you got a chance to guess the category ("is it Potent Potables?"), would that be an improvement?
[/quote]
I'm not sure why it needs improving, honestly. Or are you throwing it out there as a "would this make a good show even better?" thing?
[/quote]
Yes. The OP had stopped watching J! in favor of P+, so I thought the tying everything together aspect of P+ could be borrowed to make J! a more challenging watch for the OP. Thinking more about it, maybe they could try it once a show for bonus money to be added to your score, etc.
-
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'124082\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 09:40 AM\']
knowing who had an affair with Paris Hilton takes 0 intellegence).
[/quote]
Why, sir, does this take any less intelligence than any other recall of a memorized fact? Because you don't think it's important? I happen to agree with you, but where is the line drawn? I could give two tin ones about who drives the number 11 car in the Nextel Cup Series. Does that require zero intelligence too?
-
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'124087\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 11:57 AM\']
I could give two tin ones about who drives the number 11 car in the Nextel Cup Series. [/quote]
Way to give Henke a reason to post.
Does that require zero intelligence too?
Yes, it does. Whether it be football, racing, or hockey, it takes 0 intellegence to remember. Oh! Drew Bledsoe played for the Patriots and the Bills before Dallas.
As for the Paris Hilton comment...I think all recalled information takes little...if any. intellegence...and she seems to fit that bill perfectly.
If it is considered intellegence...well, I guess my IQ is sky-high...but the last time I checked, Paris Hilton and sports weren't on IQ tests.
-
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'124098\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 11:51 AM\']
Yes, it does. Whether it be football, racing, or hockey, it takes 0 intellegence to remember.
[/quote]
Well, then I believe our conversation is over, 'cuz I sure can't top that.
-
[quote name=\'Jimmy Owen\' post=\'124072\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 07:28 AM\']
If J! put in a rule that after a row was completed, you got a chance to guess the category ("is it Potent Potables?"), would that be an improvement?
[/quote]If you were to cross Jeopardy! with Pyramid, you'd get a little something like this (http://\"http://boardgamegeek.com/game/3568\"). Which I haven't played in a long time because the material doesn't age well, but an updated game would be neat.
-
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'124114\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 01:46 PM\']
If you were to cross Jeopardy! with Pyramid, you'd get a little something like this (http://\"http://boardgamegeek.com/game/3568\"). Which I haven't played in a long time because the material doesn't age well, but an updated game would be neat.
[/quote]
Really more of a cross between Jeopardy and Password Plus, innit? Were most of the topics of the "Things With A <BLANK>" variety?
-
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'124117\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 02:03 PM\']
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'124114\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 01:46 PM\']
If you were to cross Jeopardy! with Pyramid, you'd get a little something like this (http://\"http://boardgamegeek.com/game/3568\"). Which I haven't played in a long time because the material doesn't age well, but an updated game would be neat.
[/quote]
Really more of a cross between Jeopardy and Password Plus, innit? Were most of the topics of the "Things With A <BLANK>" variety?
[/quote]
Sometimes it was "Things that are <blank>" or "Things With a <blank," and still other times the answers would add up to a puzzle more like the Password variety. You might have questions about colonial America, golf, airplane guidance, and they all tie together for "Get Smart."
-
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'124098\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 11:51 AM\']
[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'124087\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 11:57 AM\']
I could give two tin ones about who drives the number 11 car in the Nextel Cup Series. [/quote]
Way to give Henke a reason to post.
Does that require zero intelligence too?
Yes, it does. Whether it be football, racing, or hockey, it takes 0 intellegence to remember. Oh! Drew Bledsoe played for the Patriots and the Bills before Dallas.
As for the Paris Hilton comment...I think all recalled information takes little...if any. intellegence...and she seems to fit that bill perfectly.
If it is considered intellegence...well, I guess my IQ is sky-high...but the last time I checked, Paris Hilton and sports weren't on IQ tests.
[/quote]
You're mixing two things, Mark. The key thing is that being smart and knowledgeable are two different things. Typically you don't have to be smart to get on a game show, but you do have to be knowledgeable. The recalling of information in such a way that you can do it faster than other people takes thousands of neurons firing all at once, and then your brain has to get you to push the button and say the answer. Knowing thousands of facts isn't enough. A game like "Countdown" is probably something closest to testing the textbook definition of smart.
But why let that take away from your opportunity to make a needless slam on something that had zero to do with our thread (Paris Hilton)?
-
[quote name=\'Modor\' post=\'124098\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 02:51 PM\']If it is considered intellegence...well, I guess my IQ is sky-high...but the last time I checked, Paris Hilton and sports weren't on IQ tests.[/quote]
And neither are state capitals or names of popes.
Far too often, people lump together "knowledge" and "intelligence". Two very different things, although people who have a lot of one tend to also have a lot of the other.
Q&A games generally require knowledge. Do you know the capital of Montana? Do you know the number of the last pope named John? Do you know the first name of Paris Hilton's most recent fiancee? All of those are asking you to have learned and retained information. People can -- and have -- placed value judgments on which sorts of information are "better" to know than others, but it's all essentially the same stuff.
Again speaking generally, word games require intelligence. Can you figure out the five-letter word using these rules and conditions? Can you figure out -- or convey -- information with a series of one-word clues? Can you identify a phrase with only as few key letters showing? All require a modicum of knowledge (I'm very intelligent, but I would suck at a Spanish version of Lingo) but mostly, they're testing your brain's ability to process information, not necessarily retain it. And that's what I.Q. tests test.
No game show exclusively tests one as opposed to the other, and really good quiz games can craft clever questions that let you use your intelligence to solve them even if you don't have the specific knowledge. I would suggest that the very best game shows are the ones that test your ability to "figure out" as opposed to your capacity to "know".
-
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'124120\' date=\'Jul 13 2006, 02:54 PM\']
If you were to cross Jeopardy! with Pyramid, you'd get a little something like this (http://\"http://boardgamegeek.com/game/3568\"). Which I haven't played in a long time because the material doesn't age well, but an updated game would be neat.
[/quote]
My favorite personal moment from Stage II:
The answer to question #1 was SOLOMON. I tossed in a chip and correctly guessed the category: components of the magic word SHAZAM (Solomon, Hercules, Atlas, Zeus, Achilles, Mercury-- drilled into my head by watching The Shazam/Isis Hour as a child).
Everyone looked at me like I'd grown a second head.
-
I can definitely vouch for the difference between knowledge and intelligence. I've generally scored respectably on IQ tests, and people tell me all the time that I'm a good writer, but memorizing a bunch of facts about things that don't interest me all that much has never been my strong point. And I'd say that I'm pretty good at word-association games, but I'd make a complete fool of myself on Jeopardy!