The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: joshg on July 31, 2006, 09:26:02 AM
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Apologies if I totally missed this here on the forum:
http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/C...lay=Syndication (http://\"http://www.broadcastingcable.com/article/CA6357458.html?display=Syndication\")
It's a game of definitions and the John Ricci game?
Oy.
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[quote name=\'matchgame\' post=\'125744\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 06:26 AM\']
It's a game of definitions and the John Ricci game?
Oy.
[/quote]
Another new format? Well, if they at least make an effort to stay true to the old one this time, I'll try it.
As for the latter, it said "working title", but I'm sure we'll hear from John if in fact he did manage to sell his, although from the synopsis presented it doesn't sound like his.
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Well, I wish Ricci as much luck as I can and hope that he crushes the competition. Congratulations to him and I wish him a ton of good luck.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'125745\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 09:29 AM\']As for the latter, it said "working title", but I'm sure we'll hear from John if in fact he did manage to sell his, although from the synopsis presented it doesn't sound like his.[/quote]
Without saying too much (heck, I don't know all that much), it is indeed John's project reborn. Changes have been made but John is heavily involved in them. I'm sure we all wish him well.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'125749\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 09:54 AM\']
Without saying too much (heck, I don't know all that much), it is indeed John's project reborn. Changes have been made but John is heavily involved in them. I'm sure we all wish him well.
[/quote]
Well, that's great! I believe GSC4 was the first time I saw the pilot, and had been hoping since then that something would become of it. Glad to hear it has!
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'125749\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 06:54 AM\']
Without saying too much (heck, I don't know all that much), it is indeed John's project reborn. Changes have been made but John is heavily involved in them. I'm sure we all wish him well.
[/quote]
Well, good on him, then. I'll be interested to see it.
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Over a decade of work has paid off it seems, congrats JRJ.
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[quote name=\'FOXSportsFan\' post=\'125755\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 08:16 AM\']
Over a decade of work has paid off it seems, congrats JRJ.
[/quote]
I'm sure John will be the very first to tell you that it's not out of the woods yet by a long shot...it sounds like there's still development happening, which means that a new pilot is prolly not in the can yet, and THEN it has to go to NAPTE and get enough interest to merit making a series out of it.
Still, though, it sounds like it's more movement on this side of the pond then he's ever had before, so good for him and good luck with the rest of it.
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Oh I'm not denying that...but to even get as far as he has with it, in my view, is a sizeable accomplishment.
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[quote name=\'FOXSportsFan\' post=\'125758\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 08:23 AM\']
Oh I'm not denying that...but to even get as far as he has with it, in my view, is a sizeable accomplishment.
[/quote]
No question. I just would be reticent to call it "paid off" until he's "paid off" with a check when it goes to series, ya know? :)
(That said, I would guess that if he's working with King World on it now, that work isn't being done gratis, and whatever he's making for that is 100% more than I've ever gotten paid for working in the game-show industry. And if nothing else, it's resume fodder. So for all of us who have knocked him in the past, he's having a laugh right now at our expense, and good for him, he should enjoy it.)
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Hey that's great news...I'd love to see a new TJW, and I've always been interested in Ricci's "Lock" project, so I wish him the best. Best of luck!
I just hope that the changes in store aren't too drastic.
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Somehow, it appears that John became a controversial figure on The Board, managing to alienate a few of our members. I must confess that John ruffled a few of my own feathers in years past. But if John covered his insecurity in knocking on closed doors with a little false bravado, he is far from the first. And let those of us who have never been accused of being overzealous in our game show fandom speak up now.
(SFX: crickets)
After working with John on a daily basis in recent months, I can tell you he is a creative, competent and dedicated worker, a quality human being, and a trusted friend. I voiced the original "Combination Lock" presentation many moons ago and have had the chance to see John tenaciously nurture his creation and nurture his relationships to where he has accomplished the nearly impossible.
I suggest that happiness is the appropriate emotion, as John's success to this point offers encouragement for all of us with dreams beyond our grasp, and may in some small way have helped pave a road for all of us. Watching further success with "Combination Lock" and the other aces up John's sleeve will only make me smile wider.
Congrats, buddy!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
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Of course TJW has to have a new format. It's 2006. Change is expected. It may not be good, but it has to be new in order to be exciting. *rolls eyes*
I was aware of the new syndie block being formed to combat DoND but this is the first time I've seen specifics. If these shows work (nothing much to say that they can't aside from Joker purists) then it's Game On for 2K7.
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Of course TJW has to have a new format. It's 2006. Change is expected. It may not be good, but it has to be new in order to be exciting.
Certainly it should be updated for the new mellenium, but I just hope the host doesn't state on the first episode that "...as you know, The Joker's Wild is a game of..." (fill in the blank) :)
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what if he completes it with "Knowledge and Luck", something which has been evident in every incarnation of the series? Hm?
Of course, the "as you know" part would look pretty strange in the 1st episode of a series.
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Of course, the "as you know" part would look pretty strange in the 1st episode of a series.
That's why my post was kind of a joke. Pat Finn, on the first episode of Joker's Wild 1990, stated "as you know, The Joker's Wild is a game of definitions".
It was the first episode - how were we supposed to know that? :)
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[quote name=\'Ian Wallis\' post=\'125792\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 03:53 PM\']
Of course TJW has to have a new format. It's 2006. Change is expected. It may not be good, but it has to be new in order to be exciting.
Certainly it should be updated for the new mellenium, but I just hope the host doesn't state on the first episode that "...as you know, The Joker's Wild is a game of..." (fill in the blank) :)
[/quote]
Speaking of hosts, does Sony go with a name or an unknown?
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' post=\'125768\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 12:02 PM\']
(That said, I would guess that if he's working with King World on it now, that work isn't being done gratis, and whatever he's making for that is 100% more than I've ever gotten paid for working in the game-show industry...)
[/quote]
And 100% more than he made from his DOS games. Speaking of which, maybe he'll send King World a copy of his TJW game with a note saying, "This is how you do it" so we don't go through another '90-like debacle. :-)
Props to John for getting as far as he has. Let's hope that CL goes all the way to air... and stays there for a good long time.
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[quote name=\'FOXSportsFan\' post=\'125755\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 11:16 AM\']
Over a decade of work has paid off it seems, congrats JRJ.
[/quote]
Let me second that. Look forward to seeing this! No matter what happens...you deserve a great amount of respect for making it this far. Best of luck.
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Congratulations, John! It is awesome to see a fellow fan's years of work on a project possibly reach fruition. To be working with Harry Friedman, one of the best in the industry, is a definite plus.
Good luck to you and Combination Lock!
As far as the other show goes, wow. I loved TJW and I am cautiously looking forward to a new version.
Tim :-)
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[quote name=\'tvrandywest\' post=\'125775\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 11:33 AM\']
After working with John on a daily basis in recent months, I can tell you he is a creative, competent and dedicated worker, a quality human being, and a trusted friend. I voiced the original "Combination Lock" presentation many moons ago and have had the chance to see John tenaciously nurture his creation and nurture his relationships to where he has accomplished the nearly impossible.
I suggest that happiness is the appropriate emotion, as John's success to this point offers encouragement for all of us with dreams beyond our grasp, and may in some small way have helped pave a road for all of us. Watching further success with "Combination Lock" and the other aces up John's sleeve will only make me smile wider.
Congrats, buddy!
Randy
tvrandywest.com
[/quote]
Sounds like Mr. West is actively pursuing another announcing job next Fall ;-)
Seriously, to all involved with not only John's project, but also those involved with the other half of the new KW block, more power to you. Any first run alternatives to Mary "And I was there" Hart and the Pat Brothers (Sajak & O'Brien) in early prime would surely be appreciated. :-P
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Any idea who the writers for TJW will be? I know of a former Cincinnatian who worked for QUBE and then wrote questions for the 90 version.
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[quote name=\'toddyo\' post=\'125849\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 11:39 PM\']
Any idea who the writers for TJW will be? I know of a former Cincinnatian who worked for QUBE and then wrote questions for the 90 version.
[/quote]
I honestly don't have a single clue. But I hope Gary Johnson will have participation in the writing department with either of these two projects.
-Dan Berger
FLASHGames²
http://www.flashgameshows.com (http://\"http://www.flashgameshows.com\")
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[quote name=\'TimK2003\' post=\'125824\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 09:15 PM\']
Seriously, to all involved with not only John's project, but also those involved with the other half of the new KW block, more power to you. Any first run alternatives to Mary "And I was there" Hart and the Pat Brothers (Sajak & O'Brien) in early prime would surely be appreciated. :-P
[/quote]
Well, since all of the above mentioned shows (including the new game block) are distributed by divisions of Paramount/Viacom, upsetting the status quo is probably not the first priority.
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[quote name=\'Timsterino\' post=\'125823\' date=\'Jul 31 2006, 08:54 PM\']As far as the other show goes, wow. I loved TJW and I am cautiously looking forward to a new version.[/quote]
I just hope it's not Fremantle Card Sharks Redux.
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Like Tim, I'm cautiously anticipating TJW's new version. It could bring back part of its classic elements along with some other new things.
As for CL, very happy to hear Ricci's "pet" project is almost ready to go. Even though it's still in development, it's nice to know we now have a "working" title & a format(subject to change of course) to go with it. He deserves all the luck he can get especially with Friedman running things on the EP side of the ledger certainly doesn't hurt.
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I'm hoping that Friedman will keep the basic format and just pretty it up to make it look 2006. I suspect that the major tweaking will be to have a game play out in a half-hour, so they can avoid straddling. (I have doubts about whether there'll be returning champs, but that could still happen.)
KW's first natural target would be the CBS-owned stations. Since WBBM's still quadruple-pumping (yes, I said quadruple-pumping) "Judge Judy" every afternoon--and they haven't announced any pickups for this coming season--there's room for new shows in the afternoon and "TJW" and "Lock" could do it.
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A good, solid, quiz ( and slots) based bonus might improve The Joker's Wild quite a bit. Barry's bonus rounds lacked creativity, as they all basically involved dumb luck. Not to sat that "Face The Devil" was bad, it just had no element of quiz. This is in sharp contrast with Goodson's formats, which usually should not be changed, as they were done right the first time.
Congrats to John, as well!
Ben
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'125900\' date=\'Aug 1 2006, 11:43 AM\']
I'm hoping that Friedman will keep the basic format and just pretty it up to make it look 2006. I suspect that the major tweaking will be to have a game play out in a half-hour, so they can avoid straddling. (I have doubts about whether there'll be returning champs, but that could still happen.)
[/quote]
This is, of course, assuming that this will recognizeably resemble the 1972-1986 format, but if these shows are going out in some sort of order, as most syndicated shows nowadays are whether there's continuity required beetween episodes or not, then I think there's nothing wrong with straddling, and therefore with returning champs. Even if they are dead-set against straddling, I think the solution there would be to do it WOF-style and play until time runs out, rather than play to a set score. I don't remember how long the games usually lasted on the old program, but if things are done speedily, they *might* even be able to eke out two front games and two bonuses per episode.
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[quote name=\'Gus\' post=\'125937\' date=\'Aug 1 2006, 04:39 PM\']
Even if they are dead-set against straddling, I think the solution there would be to do it WOF-style and play until time runs out, rather than play to a set score. I don't remember how long the games usually lasted on the old program, but if things are done speedily, they *might* even be able to eke out two front games and two bonuses per episode.
[/quote]
If they just keep playing until time runs out, then that would pretty much take out the "instant win" aspect from the game. The element of coming up with three jokers and correctly answering a question to win -- regardless of where you were in the scoring -- was unique and shuldn't be tampered with.
And I never did like how TJW '90 would "loosen" the slots as the game went on to stay close with the allotted time for the self-contained shows. If you had a good player(s), the show could (and occasionally did) have a boatload of time to fill. Poor players and you've got a show that looks like an old tape from a Video Editing 101 class in college.
If KW was smart, they would either go like the old Match Game's where games would straddle midweek, but stretch or shrink to fit by the end of Friday's ep, or go the way of Millionaire where straddling is OK.
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'125900\' date=\'Aug 1 2006, 10:43 AM\']
KW's first natural target would be the CBS-owned stations. Since WBBM's still quadruple-pumping (yes, I said quadruple-pumping) "Judge Judy" every afternoon--and they haven't announced any pickups for this coming season--there's room for new shows in the afternoon and "TJW" and "Lock" could do it.
[/quote]
If all else fails, MyTv50/WPWR can always take out that extra block of "Springer" (unless that'll be replaced this fall)
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[quote name=\'uncamark\' post=\'125900\' date=\'Aug 1 2006, 11:43 AM\']
I'm hoping that Friedman will keep the basic format and just pretty it up to make it look 2006. I suspect that the major tweaking will be to have a game play out in a half-hour, so they can avoid straddling. (I have doubts about whether there'll be returning champs, but that could still happen.)[/quote]
I think between DoND, H2, and Millionaire, straddling has been made cooler again. I expect that champions will be used, at least for awhile (I think the champions dropped from Wheel because of the newer presentations of the show and that the show is just too damn popular).
From the minimal amount of shows I've seen, I'm thinking you could easily fit a game and a half of classic TJW in a half-hour. I'm willing to believe the straddling (if any) will parallel Millionaire and syndie Match Game in that there will be some carryovers, but never on the day's last taping (Friday shows).
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'125993\' date=\'Aug 1 2006, 09:51 PM\']I think between DoND, H2, and Millionaire, straddling has been made cooler again. I expect that champions will be used, at least for awhile (I think the champions dropped from Wheel because of the newer presentations of the show and that the show is just too damn popular).
[/quote]I have never understood how a show's popularity has had Thing One to do with whether it had returning champions. The Price Is Right has been number one for years, and the last time it had a returning champion was when Bill Cullen was host. I'm not entirely sold on "We canned returning champions because so many people were trying out" either, because if you have a three-day limit on winners, you're still going through 12 contestants a week. So three more people get a chance to spin the wheel. Yee haw.
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*shrug* I don't know. It's just my opinion. I also think now that theme weeks are such a big part of Wheel now that a returning champion seems clunky. And, I don't know about everyone else, but having a Friday Finals every week just seemed weird.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'125997\' date=\'Aug 2 2006, 01:44 AM\']I have never understood how a show's popularity has had Thing One to do with whether it had returning champions. [/quote]
See: Jennings, Ken
See also: McKee, Thom
There is certainly something to be said for home viewers having a rooting interest (one way or the other) in a defending champion. It's not the be-all-end-all answer to everything, but neither is it completely meaningless.
Also "returning champions" and "straddling" are not necessarily the same thing. A lot of game shows would work better as games if they were allowed to play out to their natural conclusions instead of to a time limit. Whether doing that would make them better shows is certainly open to debate; there are plenty of pros and cons either way.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'126039\' date=\'Aug 2 2006, 09:47 AM\']
[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'125997\' date=\'Aug 2 2006, 01:44 AM\']I have never understood how a show's popularity has had Thing One to do with whether it had returning champions. [/quote]
See: Jennings, Ken
See also: McKee, Thom[/quote]These are certainly special cases. While "Wheel of Fortune" would be a damn lot more interesting if you could watch someone rack up twenty or more wins, I was talking about comparing a show where there are returning champions at all (Jeopardy) or not (Wheel of Fortune). A show being popular and a show having returning champions are exclusive.
There is certainly something to be said for home viewers having a rooting interest (one way or the other) in a defending champion. It's not the be-all-end-all answer to everything, but neither is it completely meaningless.
Absolutely. I was a big fan of "Hollywood Squares" going to the five-day limit in 1999, for many of the reasons that you mentioned, but I will boldly claim that the show would have gone on just as long as it did if you had two new players every night.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'126039\' date=\'Aug 2 2006, 11:47 AM\']
A lot of game shows would work better as games if they were allowed to play out to their natural conclusions instead of to a time limit. Whether doing that would make them better shows is certainly open to debate; there are plenty of pros and cons either way.
[/quote]
There's no reason to think that Friedmann is against returning champs--on "Pyramid," the appeal of switching the celebrities everyday outweighed the appeal of returning champs. "Hollywood Squares," in my view, watching them currenly on GSN, is that 2-out-of-3 matches aren't as good as playing until time runs out, because the show isn't as good that way. (And especially on the Squares, the show is more important than the game.)
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[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'126162\' date=\'Aug 3 2006, 01:11 PM\']
on "Pyramid," the appeal of switching the celebrities everyday outweighed the appeal of returning champs.
[/quote]
I could get behind that if there had been any reason at all to care about the celebrities that played. Honestly, and I think I mentioned this before, I once tuned in to see four attractive people playing, and I had NO IDEA which two were the celebrities. And I consider myself pretty up on pop culture.
[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'126162\' date=\'Aug 3 2006, 01:11 PM\']
"Hollywood Squares," in my view, watching them currenly on GSN, is that 2-out-of-3 matches aren't as good as playing until time runs out, because the show isn't as good that way. (And especially on the Squares, the show is more important than the game.)[/quote]
I grudgingly go along with this. Certainly it worked for years with Marshall and the "tacky buzzer". Still, I'm not seeing how the show part is particularly hurt by straddling. Seems with a more relaxed pace, there would be even more opportunity for wacky celebrity hijinks.
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[quote name=\'TLEberle\' post=\'126119\' date=\'Aug 3 2006, 12:39 AM\']
While "Wheel of Fortune" would be a damn lot more interesting if you could watch someone rack up twenty or more wins <snip>
[/quote]
I submit Wheel would be a damn lot more interesting if they had more gameplay and less graphics and in-game ads (tonight's $350 space is brought to you by IKEA)... but that's another topic.
I do think returning champs makes a game much more interesting, particularly if you have a compelling contestant to follow like Ken Jennings. It seems rather obvious that the ratings for Jeopardy! bore that out. People like having someone to root for. TPiR is a bit of an anomaly, though it's become such a part of Americana that with or without champs, people would watch it.
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The way Price is set up, there's no place for a returning player. Where would you put them? In fact, very few of the "pick from the audience" shows had returning players (Tresure Hunt being an odd exception)
Remember how all those 70's and early 80's shows had daytime versions with champs and nighttime versions without? Did you think there was a significant difference in the quality between them?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' post=\'126171\' date=\'Aug 3 2006, 01:00 PM\']
[quote name=\'Neumms\' post=\'126162\' date=\'Aug 3 2006, 01:11 PM\']
on "Pyramid," the appeal of switching the celebrities everyday outweighed the appeal of returning champs.
[/quote]
I could get behind that if there had been any reason at all to care about the celebrities that played. Honestly, and I think I mentioned this before, I once tuned in to see four attractive people playing, and I had NO IDEA which two were the celebrities. And I consider myself pretty up on pop culture.
[/quote]
No doubt. But that's why they did it, not because they had an axe to grind over carry-over champions.
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'126185\' date=\'Aug 3 2006, 02:29 PM\']
The way Price is set up, there's no place for a returning player. Where would you put them? In fact, very few of the "pick from the audience" shows had returning players (Tresure Hunt being an odd exception)
Remember how all those 70's and early 80's shows had daytime versions with champs and nighttime versions without? Did you think there was a significant difference in the quality between them?
[/quote]
And the main reason for that difference was that no one wanted to bicycle the syndicated shows like they did the daytime talk shows like Mike Douglas or Phil Donahue--until B&E did exactly that for "TJW." Also, the syndicated strips or twice-a-weeks were designed so that they could be played as once-a-week shows, which precluded having continuing champions. When satellite distribution took over, the last logistical barriers were dropped and syndicated shows were free to have continuing champions--and did.
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You missed the point, and so I'll make it clearer: Which version was better, daytime or nighttime, or was there no appreciable difference?
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[quote name=\'Joe Mello\' post=\'126185\' date=\'Aug 3 2006, 02:29 PM\']
The way Price is set up, there's no place for a returning player. Where would you put them?[/quote]
That's not difficult. You put them in as one of the four players on the first IUFB. (You could make a good case for giving them either the first or the last bid.)
Remember how all those 70's and early 80's shows had daytime versions with champs and nighttime versions without? Did you think there was a significant difference in the quality between them?
Here are the main shows that I remember:
FF Advantage daytime, because Richard could make jokes about things that a contestant on the winning team did the day before.
10/20K v. 25K Pyramid Hard to say. On the daytime version, once you won the big money, you left, so it was hard to root for a defending champion. Worse, on the 20K, I found myself rooting for the winner not to take it all in the 10/15K attempts. OTOH, on both Cullen 25KP and Donnymid, when the two games were split, there was little to root for in the second Winner's Circle.
MG Any difference here would not have been attributable to the defending champions, because that's not what made the show popular.
One thing I never hear discussed about how defending champions affect the show: On syndie Feud, a Fast Money loss meant that a winning family went home with about a grand, end of story. But on any show with defending champions, prior winnings create the illusion of giving away more money. On the 25KP daytime and 100KP, a new player could win his first game and $10,000, appear five days and not hit you up again, but you'd have five days where the recap includes a $10K+ winner.
I suppose the biggest down side of returning champions is coming up with multiple days' worth of small talk.
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First of all, I am celebrating for two reasons. First, is that one of my all time favorite shows is returning. (Duh!) Second, a really good old school ATGSer is getting his reward. Props to you, John!!!
I am liking the fact that Mr. Friedman will be at the reigns. Hopefully, the maingame rules will remain intact. As for the bonus game, how about some inspiration from the current Vegas-like slots we are seeing these days? Would that be too complicated, or could it be done in a fun and slick way?
As far as Combo Lock is concerned, John...I wish you all the best. I also wish you wisdom in balancing the integrity of your awesome game, with the realistic commercial "updates" KW and Sony may wish to bestow upon your game.
In any event, this looks like a potential win/win for we, the starving game show fans.
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[quote name=\'tjhornikel\' post=\'126373\' date=\'Aug 5 2006, 01:12 AM\']
As for the bonus game, how about some inspiration from the current Vegas-like slots we are seeing these days? Would that be too complicated, or could it be done in a fun and slick way?[/quote]
You're assuming that the current Vegas-like slots we are seeing these days are unique. If AC's selection is any indication, there's nothing useful to borrow from. I don't consider Virtual Slots on your computer to count.
After all, the entire show is to resemble Vegas-like slots.