The Game Show Forum
The Game Show Forum => The Big Board => Topic started by: brianhenke on September 07, 2003, 05:15:58 PM
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In case you watched Sunday NFL Countdown on ESPN today, Chris Berman and co. started a new feature called \"Two Minute No Huddle\", where Boomer asks questions to Tom Jackson, Steve Young, and newcomer Michael Irvin (but no Rush Limbaugh!).
Berman started the feature by referring to Password and Allen Ludden, stating that this reminded him of the Lightning Round of Password (which he mentioned many times on Boardwalk and Baseball's Super Bowl of Sports Trivia). When it was over, he said all the panelists get the home version and mentioned Ludden again.
Brian
100 plus 100 equals 600?
We want some more pro wrestling (STILL) and NASCAR questions!
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Does ESPN have to have a \"lightning round\" or a \"top 10\" in EVERY damn one of their shows now? SportsCenter, Baseball Tonight... everywhere you look. Their shows are rapidly becoming unwatchable.
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OBWheel: Chargers lost today
-Joe R.
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[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 05:16 PM\'] Does ESPN have to have a "lightning round" or a "top 10" in EVERY damn one of their shows now? SportsCenter, Baseball Tonight... everywhere you look. Their shows are rapidly becoming unwatchable. [/quote]
Sorry, but I think ESPN's use of the sports equivalent of Variety-speak is what makes their shows unwatchable.
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[quote name=\'JRaygor\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 06:53 PM\'] OBWhew!: Chargers lost today
-Joe R. [/quote]
:)
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[quote name=\'brianhenke\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 02:15 PM\'] where Boomer asks questions to Tom Jackson, Steve Young, and newcomer Michael Irvin (but no Rush Limbaugh!).
[/quote]
This is because Limbaugh is only appearing on the Monday Night Countdown show with Stuart Scott, isn't it?
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Their shows are rapidly becoming unwatchable.
GSN syndrome?
ObGameShow: GSN really should pick up more Marshall Squares.
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[quote name=\'PeterMarshallFan\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 07:26 PM\']
ObGameShow: GSN really should pick up more Marshall Squares. [/quote]
A-freaking-men about Marshall HS.
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i happen to enjoy the top 10 countdown on sportscenter, although I dont think they do them on any other show
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 07:24 PM\'] This is because Limbaugh is only appearing on the Monday Night Countdown show with Stuart Scott, isn't it? [/quote]
Nope, he's on the Sunday AM show but doesn't get to sit at the adult table with Boomer & Co. He can do what are called \"Rush Challenges\" where he disputes somebody else's opinion.
(long personal opinion of the need for Michael Irvin to appear anywhere but a maximum-security institution snipped)
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[quote name=\'JayC\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 06:47 PM\'] i happen to enjoy the top 10 countdown on sportscenter, although I dont think they do them on any other show [/quote]
Baseball Tonight has something called \"Web Gems\" which is the same basic thing. All these countdowns, lists or whatever you want to call them are just \"filler\" material that serves no useful purpose. Style over substance. Etc.
I really miss highlight shows like the old \"This Week in Baseball\" and \"This Week in the NFL\", which showed highlights in a much more \"leisurely\" format. We are saturated with daily highlight shows now, with almost no real information content.
ObGameShows: Ummm... Joe Garagiola?
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[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 10:52 PM\'] [quote name=\'JayC\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 06:47 PM\'] i happen to enjoy the top 10 countdown on sportscenter, although I dont think they do them on any other show [/quote]
Baseball Tonight has something called "Web Gems" which is the same basic thing. All these countdowns, lists or whatever you want to call them are just "filler" material that serves no useful purpose. Style over substance. Etc.
I really miss highlight shows like the old "This Week in Baseball" and "This Week in the NFL", which showed highlights in a much more "leisurely" format. We are saturated with daily highlight shows now, with almost no real information content.
ObGameShows: Ummm... Joe Garagiola? [/quote]
(whispers to Melman1)
This Week in Baseball used/uses the 1974 \"Jackpot\" theme.
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[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Sep 7 2003, 05:16 PM\'] Does ESPN have to have a "lightning round" or a "top 10" in EVERY damn one of their shows now? SportsCenter, Baseball Tonight... everywhere you look. Their shows are rapidly becoming unwatchable. [/quote]
It's been down the tubes since adding \"Pardon the Interruption\", etc...I rarely watch ESPN now...
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Baseball Tonight has something called \"Web Gems\" which is the same basic thing. All these countdowns, lists or whatever you want to call them are just \"filler\" material that serves no useful purpose.
Sorry, but I think ESPN's use of the sports equivalent of Variety-speak is what makes their shows unwatchable.
Does ESPN have to have a \"lightning round\" or a \"top 10\" in EVERY damn one of their shows now? SportsCenter, Baseball Tonight... everywhere you look. Their shows are rapidly becoming unwatchable.
And once again I'm amazed at how you self-styled experts know everything that's wrong with ESPN too.
Please learn to put a little perspective into your criticisms. Not everything that you don't like is \"unwatchable\". Not every publicity stunt program requires you to vomit. Not every program change is \"the end of GSN\" and not every ratings downturn means that everything they're doing is wrong.
These extremist opinions remind me of an old Mike Myers skit (\"It's Scottish or it's CRAP\") and are far too common on the internet. I'd like to think that our group is a slightly smarter bunch. Modulating your anger to rational levels would be a good way to start proving that. For some of you, recognizing that as a teenager, you might not be quite as smart as trained professionals twice your age would help too.
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 06:23 AM\'] These extremist opinions remind me of an old Mike Myers skit (\"It's Scottish or it's CRAP\") [/quote]
Off topic, but ObMe: I have a Venn diagram oh my office whiteboard diagramming the relationship between \"All Things Scottish\" \"All Things Not Scottish\" and \"Crap\". :)
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I think ESPN may be at its height right now. It broadcasts all four major sports, it has interesting talk shows (PTI is great), it offers alternative sports, and has good original programming.
Goongas
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[quote name=\'goongas\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 08:41 AM\'] I think ESPN may be at its height right now. It broadcasts all four major sports, it has interesting talk shows (PTI is great), it offers alternative sports, and has good original programming.
[/quote]
True on most counts, but IMO \"SportsCenter\" was never better than when Olbermann and Patrick were still working together. It's not bad now (certainly you'll never see me hang the \"unwatchable\" designation on a sports news show), but watching those two work together was like watching Wayne Gretzky play hockey when he was still in Edmonton.
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[quote name=\'clemon79\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 10:49 AM\']True on most counts, but IMO \"SportsCenter\" was never better than when Olbermann and Patrick were still working together. It's not bad now (certainly you'll never see me hang the \"unwatchable\" designation on a sports news show), but watching those two work together was like watching Wayne Gretzky play hockey when he was still in Edmonton.[/quote]
Agreed. Although I do wish I had seen more of the early days--when Chris Berman and Tom Mees would do the late night SPORTSCENTER (and when ESPN wasn't quite as mass appeal as they are now). I recall one summer afternoon when Mees got paired with John Saunders (Saunders had already gravitated toward doing ABC's studio wraps and hadn't done many SPORTSCENTERs since), and Mees looked him square in the eye during the opening and said, \"I'm Tom Mees along with. . .John Saunders?! What the heck are you doing here?\"
I'd expect another big clipfest next year when ESPN celebrates its 25th anniversary (feel old now? :) ).
Doug--soon to celebrate 100 posts (and the hits just keep on coming)
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Although I do wish I had seen more of the early days--when Chris Berman and Tom Mees would do the late night SPORTSCENTER (and when ESPN wasn't quite as mass appeal as they are now).
This is not only an excellent point (with which I agree) but it's also relevant to the bigger picture of how we look at GSN. LOTS of cable channels were \"better\" to a core audience of loyalists before they started reaching \"mass appeal\". As I've said before, I loved the original version of FX. There are people who wish MTV would go back to showing videos. I'm sure there are people who preferred the black and white classics on TV Land to the more recent programming they show now. And, yes, we tend to prefer classics (and classic approaches) with our game shows.
But in every case (and lots more) the difference is a tiny group watching versus a much larger group watching. In television, the much larger group wins every time. GSN's ratings drop from a .5 to a .3 isn't nearly the cause for alarm some are making it out to be, when just a few years ago they weren't even getting enough viewers to HAVE a rating.
Those of us who love Black & White Overnight loved it even more when those programs were offered every night in prime time, but just like Australian Rules Football, Breakfast Time, Flock of Seagulls and Ozzie and Harriet, those days are past.
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What we may be seeing is the drawing of a line as to how small a niche market can get. Or to put it another way, we could have a separate channel for every American over age 5. But that would cost too much. So we start clumping people into groups and targeting channels at them: one for women who like escapist movies, one for men who like T&A (OK, so that's a large group), one for people who like game shows, one for people who like hard news 24-7.
The line is between specializing too much to get enough audience to make a profit, and being too general to keep your niche viewers. (Think CNN; it draws poorly unless there's big breaking news.)
Then add demographics; you are not only going after interests, but interests that buy. That's why you don't see, say, a Nursing Home Channel, even though there could be a lot of programming done for it that would draw well among a certain audience.
And that may be where GSN is; its old audience had reached its limit, and for the network to grow, it had to change with originals, new attempts at programming, and so on. The trick is to do this without alienating your old audience, keeping those niche viewers and building on them.
Or, to bring this back to ESPN and quote Keith (If it's Thursday, I must be back on MSNBC) Olbermann, \"He's day-to-day, but then again, aren't we all?\"
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Off topic, but ObMe: I have a Venn diagram oh my office whiteboard diagramming the relationship between \"All Things Scottish\" \"All Things Not Scottish\" and \"Crap\". :)
This I gotta see.
\"Game Show Man\" Joe Van Ginkel
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[quote name=\'goongas\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 10:41 AM\'] I think ESPN may be at its height right now. It broadcasts all four major sports, it has interesting talk shows (PTI is great), it offers alternative sports, and has good original programming.
Goongas [/quote]
Depends what you define as \"major\" sports.
Ratings wise, NASCAR ranks 2nd behind the NFL, and ESPN does not cover that.
If your counting NHL as a major sport--that's a weak argument; considering that a primetime game on ABC only pulled a 2.6....
And what do you mean by \"good\" original programming?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 06:23 AM\']Please learn to put a little perspective into your criticisms. Not everything that you don't like is \"unwatchable\". ... For some of you, recognizing that as a teenager, you might not be quite as smart as trained professionals twice your age would help too. [/quote]
Gracious, we're touchy. And I'm many years past being a teenager. Unfortunately, there isn't a site like this one to discuss ESPN's programming.
I don't know where you'd find a SportsCenter show from the mid 80's, but if you compared it to the current product I think you'd find that the amount of watchable highlights and news is a LOT lower - maybe as much as 50% lower - than what it once was. Ditto for \"NFL Primetime\".
\"Top 10\" lists and unrelated highlights compiled \"music-video-style\" are not \"watchable\" or \"informative\" content to me.
They bought out \"Classic Sports Network\" and watered down what had been a fabulous hard-core \"classics\" channel too.
I can't point to a single \"style\" or \"content\" decision that ESPN has made in the last several years that I agree with. I don't care how \"trained\" or \"professional\" they might be.
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[quote name=\'melman1\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 03:04 PM\'] They bought out "Classic Sports Network" and watered down what had been a fabulous hard-core "classics" channel too. [/quote]
Is that what is now ESPN Classic? If it is, I understand where you're coming from... for some reason, a 2001 college football game doesn't seem to sit right with me being a \"classic.\"
\"Top 10\" lists and unrelated highlights compiled \"music-video-style\" are not \"watchable\" or \"informative\" content to me.
Those programs, watchable to you or not, are a different way for people to learn about what's going on in sports news. Some people respond by different forms of learning, including less formal examples such as this.
Oh, god. I'm actually using college course material to rationalize a real-world problem. Snowballs in hell, definitely.
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Side note, showing how little I paid attention yesterday:
Twice during games, an IBM e-business spot came up where the setting was a game show set. I didn't get a good look at the \"host,\" but he looked and sounded a bit like Jim MacKrell. Anybody catch this?
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 11:38 AM\']Those of us who love Black & White Overnight loved it even more when those programs were offered every night in prime time, but just like Australian Rules Football, Breakfast Time, Flock of Seagulls and Ozzie and Harriet, those days are past.[/quote]
Although \"Ozzie and Harriet\" were never on TV Land or Nick at Nite--their reruns were on the Disney Channel.
Of course, to lovers of Disneyana, the modern-day \"Rollie Polie Olie\"/Hillary Duff/\"That's So Raven\" Disney Channel's *another* bone of contention, proving that, as Yogi Berra once said, \"Nostalgia ain't what it used to be.\"
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Is that what is now ESPN Classic? If it is, I understand where you're coming from... for some reason, a 2001 college football game doesn't seem to sit right with me being a \"classic.\"
Yes. There's a lot more I could say but this isn't an \"ESPN\" board.
Those programs [\"Top 10\" lists and music-video highlights], watchable to you or not, are a different way for people to learn about what's going on in sports news. Some people respond by different forms of learning, including less formal examples such as this.
Oh, god. I'm actually using college course material to rationalize a real-world problem. Snowballs in hell, definitely..
Well... I really, really doubt that \"education theory\" has much to do with tee-vee programming.
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Depends what you define as \"major\" sports.
Ratings wise, NASCAR ranks 2nd behind the NFL, and ESPN does not cover that.
If your counting NHL as a major sport--that's a weak argument; considering that a primetime game on ABC only pulled a 2.6....
And what do you mean by \"good\" original programming?
The media has normally defined the major sports as the major team sports of baseball, football, basketball, and hockey. Your points about NASCAR and hockey are well taken.
Playmakers, and the World Series of Poker are two examples of \"good\" original programming, IMO.
Goongas
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[quote name=\'Game Show Man\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 10:40 AM\'] This I gotta see.
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It's really very easy to explain:
Draw two circles, next to each other, but not touching. Write \"All Things Scottish\" in one, and \"All Things Not Scottish\" in the other.
Now draw a third circle, such that it completely encompasses the \"Not Scottish\" circle, and intersects slightly with the \"Scottish\" circle. Label that \"Crap.\"
Voila. Proving conclisively that if it's not Scottish, it's CRAP! :)
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[quote name=\'SRIV94\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 11:00 AM\'] I'd expect another big clipfest next year when ESPN celebrates its 25th anniversary (feel old now? :) ).
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If it's anything like their 25,000 episode \"celebration,\" I'll pass. :-P (check the SportsCenter page on Jump the Shark for more)
ObGameShows: Chris Berman hosted a game show in the 80s on ESPN. I know the name, so don't no one try to correct me. :-P
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[quote name=\'Matt Ottinger\' date=\'Sep 8 2003, 08:23 AM\']
Sorry, but I think ESPN's use of the sports equivalent of Variety-speak is what makes their shows unwatchable.
And once again I'm amazed at how you self-styled experts know everything that's wrong with ESPN too.
[/quote]
Good point, and I hope that what I have to add doesn't come across as a
rant.
I should probably add that I'm likely 'off the charts', as it were, when it comes to what bothers me when it comes to news. (And everything else, for that matter. I actually was called by a pollster once, who sounded completely nonplussed when I told him I'm a Libertarian. :-) It's reached the point where pretty much my only sources of news are 'print' (including the web-sites of major news outlets) and the international broadcasters on short-wave (BBC World Service, Deutsche Welle, Radio Nederlands, and the like). I gave up on local TV news (except for the weather and sometimes sports) a year and a half ago when the local anchorette began a story on ethnic rioting in India between Muslims and Hindus by saying \"15 children died in India today\", in a tone of voice that you wouldn't hear if only adults had died.
As for ESPN, I've found Chris Berman's nicknames irritating since I was in college -- and that was a decade ago. (Ditto for Dick Vitale's basketball coverage.) And the people on ESPNews all sound to me like they're trying not to be the reporter, but to be the story by trying to be the play-by-play announcer and using silly jargon I've never heard elsewhere.
This is probably the sort of style that brings in the desired demographics, but for me, it grates against my ears like fingernails on a chalkboard. If I want to get a score from the ESPNews ticker, I'll either flip back and forth vigorously between ESPNews and another channel, or hit the mute button.
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Although \"Ozzie and Harriet\" were never on TV Land or Nick at Nite--their reruns were on the Disney Channel.
They also are/were on GoodLife TV, for the half-dozen or so viewers they have left. :-)
Chuck Donegan (The Illustrious \"Chuckie Baby\")